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Flaked Maize.

Flaked Maize.

Postby Divey » Sun Oct 21, 2012 8:01 am

I'm certainly not a person who will knock a tried and proven recipe, and, having said that, there seems as though great Bourbons can be made with cracked corn.

I have not attempted a Bourbon as yet and I have been perusing these Bourbon threads with a great deal of interest. It does appear to me that 'cooking' corn is a little bit of a miss and hit situation and can be a major PITA. I have seen where some folks use corn flakes (not the breakfast serial), or flaked maize which is the same horse, different jockey. I can see a huge benefit in using the flaked maize as it has already gone through a 'cooking' process to gelatinise it prior rolling into flakes and dried.

I have ordered a bag of Bairds Flaked Maize and will be carrying out a simple single step infusion mash adding a little rice hulls so I don't finish up with a stuck sparge in the near future.

Is there a 'problem' using flaked maize/corn in making a Bourbon. :?: :?:

Your input would be appreciated. :D
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Re: Flaked Maize.

Postby Divey » Sun Oct 21, 2012 10:29 am

Hmmmmmm, the jury is still out on the sugar as far as I'm concerned.

I am of the opinion that it would be beneficial to use a diastatic malt when using the flaked maize. I have heard from the folks at Bintani that Joe Whites Malting is manufacturing a distillers malt now which is only supplied in those massive square canvas bags (dunno what you call them), anyway, Bintani is going to request that Joe Whites bag some of the Distillers Malt into 25 kg bags. :D :D
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Re: Flaked Maize.

Postby chill » Sun Oct 21, 2012 2:54 pm

law-of-ohms wrote:cooking corn, even with enzymes IS A PAIN THE THE ASS!

Amen, brother.

I have used corn ground for polenta with success. Still a PITA, but hits gelatinization faster. An immersion blender can be very handy. Any way you cook it, it turns to concrete fast! I have been contemplating filling up by huge roasting pan and baking it for a couple of hours at 180F.

For the amount of work, mess, burns, and general annoyance, I usually cheat and add sugar so that I get a useful yield.

Chuck
Last edited by chill on Sun Oct 21, 2012 4:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Flaked Maize.

Postby Divey » Sun Oct 21, 2012 3:29 pm

I really can't wait to get my hands on some of this flaked maize and see what it looks like. I reckon I may run it through the grain mill a few time and smash the living shitter out of it before it goes into the mash.
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Re: Flaked Maize.

Postby Divey » Thu Nov 01, 2012 7:31 am

I got my flaked maize yesterday and I was very surprised to see what it looked like. There's one thing that I don't have to do and that's run it through the grain mill as it has certainly received the grinding treatment.

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I'm running some whiskey and rum through the still today and will be mashing this stuff with some Golden Promise tomorrow to see what happens.
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Re: Flaked Maize.

Postby FullySilenced » Thu Nov 01, 2012 8:16 am

looks like chicken scratch to me
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Re: Flaked Maize.

Postby Divey » Thu Nov 01, 2012 8:29 am

This Flaked Maize is made by Micronized Food Products in the UK. It is named, 'Brewing Flaked Maize'.

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Re: Flaked Maize.

Postby Prairiepiss » Thu Nov 01, 2012 9:44 am

Flaked maize shouldn't need to go through a mill. And I have never seen any that looks like that. It usually looks like quick oats or oatmeal. Strange. As long as it is pregelitenized. It should work.

So if your making a bourbon. What other grains are you going to add to the grain bill?
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Re: Flaked Maize.

Postby FullySilenced » Thu Nov 01, 2012 9:50 am

Still looks like chicken scratch to me
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Re: Flaked Maize.

Postby scarecrow » Thu Nov 01, 2012 10:00 am

Thats odd looking maize. It appears to be a coarse crack rather than flaked. The stuff at the local HBS is flat as a pancake. Looks like yellow corn flakes.

It is pre gelatinised by heating with steam and doesn't need to be cracked. It falls apart real easy when wet.

My whiskey and Bourbon both contain corn. But my Whiskey has a small amount of rye and my Bourbon has wheat.

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Re: Flaked Maize.

Postby Divey » Thu Nov 01, 2012 10:09 am

Prairiepiss wrote:Flaked maize shouldn't need to go through a mill. And I have never seen any that looks like that. It usually looks like quick oats or oatmeal. Strange. As long as it is pregelitenized. It should work.

So if your making a bourbon. What other grains are you going to add to the grain bill?


I'm going to use some Bairds Golden Promise Ale malt. I have not made my mind up on the grain bill yet but I I'm thinking I may start at around the Flaked Maize 60% and the Golden Promise 40%, does that sound about right :?:

Here's a little speil I grabbed off the folks that make the Flaked maize.......
Brewing Ingredients

Micronized Food Products are brewing ingredients suppliers, supplying a wide range of Torrefied products to award winning customers ranging from micro breweries through regional breweries, to multi-national brewers.

Cooked cereals used in brewing and food manufacture are known as Torrefied cereals, and are widely used as natural adjuncts in the brewing process.

Torrefication occurs when a cereal is cooked at high temperature to gelatinise the starch endosperm creating the expansion of the grain and creating a puffed appearance.

The range of brewing ingredients supplied includes wheat, barley, maize and oats in flaked or whole form. Flaked or ground products can be used for convenience as they can be added to the wort without milling, making them ideal for smaller breweries.

Torrefied products are widely used to enhance clarity in the brewing process as well as improving head and cling retention.

Torrefied products offer excellent cost benefits against malt products.
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Re: Flaked Maize.

Postby Prairiepiss » Thu Nov 01, 2012 10:31 am

I love Golden Promise. That ought to make a nice addition to the corn.

So its torrified maize? Interesting. Haven't seen that before. Not over here. See wheat all the time.

Flaked maize is cooked then ran through two rollers that flatten it out into a flake. What you have looks like it was torrified then milled or cracked. Should still work fine.
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Re: Flaked Maize.

Postby Divey » Thu Nov 01, 2012 11:00 am

Here is the Label that was stitched onto the bag. It clearly says it is Flaked Maize, however, their speil on their website suggests that it's torrified. The torrified wheat that I use when making a Hefeweizen just looks like puffy wheat, not at all like this stuff. The larger pieces of maize that you can see in the photograph are as hard as buggery too. Too hard to crunch with your teeth.


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Re: Flaked Maize.

Postby Prairiepiss » Thu Nov 01, 2012 11:30 am

That's odd if you ask me. Something don't seem right.
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Re: Flaked Maize.

Postby crozdog » Thu Nov 01, 2012 7:55 pm

hi Divey,

did you get that through Dave?

Keen to hear how it goes

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Re: Flaked Maize.

Postby Divey » Thu Nov 01, 2012 9:06 pm

crozdog wrote:hi Divey,

did you get that through Dave?

Keen to hear how it goes

Crozdog


Yep, not too happy about the price though..........$75.00.
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Re: Flaked Maize.

Postby crozdog » Thu Nov 01, 2012 9:41 pm

thanks mate - I have paid more than that for a bag of malt before....

Gotta say thats about triple the price of the micronised horse feed I got. but then again I ended up having to cook it with enzymes to get anything out of it.. so $75 could be $$ well spent if no cooking is required. Let us know how it goes. Corn mash is a hard nut to crack.
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Re: Flaked Maize.

Postby Divey » Fri Nov 02, 2012 7:37 am

law-of-ohms wrote:ok, I tried the 'micrmaize' with enzymes and bread improver

3KG of maize (I could crumble it in my hands - dry)
10L of water

Got a gravity reading this morning of 1.048


Might get %8 booze from it.

That sounds about correct?

Is that a good conversion or not?


I am of the belief that you should have added some malted barley to the grist.
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Re: Flaked Maize.

Postby Divey » Fri Nov 02, 2012 9:40 am

Because all malted barley has Diastatic Power, some more, some less. Distilling Malts have a higher Diastatic Power than most other brewing malts. Diastatic Power can also be called Enzymatic Power. You need this to convert the unfermentable starches to fermentable sugars.

I am aware that you used 'some' enzymes, however, I think this is how the 'big boys' travel.
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Re: Flaked Maize.

Postby Prairiepiss » Fri Nov 02, 2012 9:53 am

Barley malt isn't needed if powdered enzymes are used. As long as you provide enough enzymes for proper conversion. It will work. Enzymes can come from malted grains or powdered commercialy available type enzymes.

Now on an AG you can't expect it to finish under 1.000SG. Especially your first mash? More then likely it will be above that. So you are looking at more like 5% to 6%. Where most AG mashes end up.
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Re: Flaked Maize.

Postby crozdog » Fri Nov 02, 2012 8:32 pm

Interesting stuff LoO,

I've used the micrmaize (http://www.hygain.com.au/Product_Range/micrmaize.php) before & the grain was quite hard - my old mill had a real hard time crushing it!

I mashed it 50:50 with barley malt (think it was barret burston ale) for about 2 hours & only got conversion from the barley :( Tried again but cooked it with liquid enzymes & got good conversion...

Maybe it needs a long mash like you did???

Keep us informed about how it goes cause i can buy it for not much more than whole corn & if we can work out how to get away with not cooking it - it'll be a good thing.
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Re: Flaked Maize.

Postby johnbsys » Wed Nov 14, 2012 4:41 am

Does anybody have a picture of Flaked Maize? I was just at the local home brew and saw a bag of flaked maize. It does not look like the picture submitted above. The stuff pictured above is just course ground corn. Sorry :-(
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