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6 inch column

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6 inch column

Postby Mr. Rat » Fri Oct 25, 2013 11:12 am

I have been running my 4 inch bubbler for a little while now and love it. But i am about to get some 6 inch stainless for free so why not make another column. In addition i have also been planning a new boiler build around the 50 gallon range so i can do one run every couple of months. I plan on having cip balls and im doing bubble caps 4 inch sight glasses. Any suggestions.
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Re: 6 inch column

Postby Stainless dude » Fri Oct 25, 2013 11:22 am

Yes sir mr rat, let's get this build started. You are not messing around, six inch and 50 gallon. Can't wait for this thread to begin. :handgestures-thumbupright:
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Re: 6 inch column

Postby zapata » Fri Oct 25, 2013 11:28 am

how much heat do you plan on throwing at a 6" column?
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Re: 6 inch column

Postby Mr. Rat » Fri Oct 25, 2013 12:20 pm

That would be one of my questions. I have the capability to throw 12375 watts at it so the question is how much should i throw at it. Right now i run between 2500 to 3000 for a four inch column a 6 inch column is more than double the area of that but i am also trying to keep 4 times as much liquid boiling at the same time. I am thinking around 6000 watts. This is going to be the slowist build of all time so dont get to excited. The plates are going to be copper and tiged into position.
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Re: 6 inch column

Postby Mr. Rat » Fri Oct 25, 2013 12:22 pm

By the way i am still in design stages right now.
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Re: 6 inch column

Postby FullySilenced » Fri Oct 25, 2013 2:01 pm

I have 8000 watts in a keg... for heat up .. put all you can in it for heat up reduction time you will never be sorry...

FS
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Re: 6 inch column

Postby JayD » Fri Oct 25, 2013 3:30 pm

This will be an interesting build which I will be following aswell as I am going to build a 6" plated column very shortly... :handgestures-thumbupright:
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Re: 6 inch column

Postby Jaybird » Fri Oct 25, 2013 8:24 pm

Mr. Rat wrote:That would be one of my questions. I have the capability to throw 12375 watts at it so the question is how much should i throw at it. Right now i run between 2500 to 3000 for a four inch column a 6 inch column is more than double the area of that but i am also trying to keep 4 times as much liquid boiling at the same time. I am thinking around 6000 watts. This is going to be the slowist build of all time so dont get to excited. The plates are going to be copper and tiged into position.

I have 7000 watts in my HLT in my small brewery (15.5 gallon keg conversion) and there is no way that would even touch 55 gallons. I am guessing your going to be closer to 40 gallon batches right? But even then I am guessing your going to need all 12k watts or your heat up time is going to be like 2 days.

Keep us posted

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Re: 6 inch column

Postby emptyglass » Fri Oct 25, 2013 10:40 pm

If your planning on running every other month, is it worth the added expense of cip?

I'm sure you are aware of the extra valves your going to need to isolate the sprayballs while you run.
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Re: 6 inch column

Postby Bushman » Sat Oct 26, 2013 1:17 am

I like your approach, I would think anything less than 30 gallons would be too small to handle a 6" column. Please add pictures throughout the build I am especially interested in how you set up your heating element(s).
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Re: 6 inch column

Postby Mr. Rat » Sun Oct 27, 2013 9:54 am

You are probably right about the cip empty so maybe just a port on the top of the column that i can jam a hose into and flood the whole thing. Bushman the boiler is going to be short and wide (insert joke here) so i plan on arranging 1 element every 1/3 of the circumference of the boiler about 6 inches off the bottom. Two will be 240 the other 120.
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Re: 6 inch column

Postby Mr. Rat » Fri Dec 27, 2013 2:08 pm

Well i can either get 6 inch or 8 inch stainless pipe so I think im gonna go for the 8. I also found some 20 inch stainless pipe that i have some cool plans for. The problem i have is that the pipe is pipe diameter not tube so i have to upsize the ferrules to attach it to the boiler. Not a big deal i needed a manhole in the boiler anyway. This weekend i am gonna flatten out some 3" copper for the plates still deciding what size caps i should use for bubble caps. Im thinking i should use 1 1/4" for the down commer either way im still working on the design of the column.
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Re: 6 inch column

Postby What » Fri Dec 27, 2013 3:09 pm

Mr Rat, if you have access to 40" of that 20" stainless pipe you have your 40 gallon boiler half made.
Lay it on its side, slap on a couple of ends and you are in business (short and wide)
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Re: 6 inch column

Postby Mr. Rat » Fri Dec 27, 2013 3:47 pm

I am going to take two 1'-3" to 1'-6" pieces and cut them lengthwise down the center spread them open with a hydrolic jack then weld them together making a 40" diameter pot. Then i am gonna take some stainless plate and weld the bottom on. I was wanting a cone on top but might just use some plate on top as well. Also a 1" drain on bottom a 3/4" threadolet for a thermowell 4 1" threadolets one every quarter circumference of the pot a 3" fill port and a 10" ferrule for the column. Stainless angle for the legs as well.
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Re: 6 inch column

Postby What » Fri Dec 27, 2013 5:03 pm

Mr Rat, I think it was Harry over on Atrisan Distiller that provided figures showing the amount of vapour produced is directly related to the heat input and not the surface area of the boiler.
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Re: 6 inch column

Postby Mr. Rat » Fri Dec 27, 2013 10:47 pm

Thanks but i knew that already. The reason for not just using the pipe as is is because if i tipped it over and used it i could only fill it a little over half full without worry of a puke. The way i plan i would use less pipe to hold more liquid with more head room.
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Re: 6 inch column

Postby myles » Fri Dec 27, 2013 11:36 pm

From what I read on other sites a 5" column needs 5 to 6 kw and a 6" column needs 9 to 11 kW. That is during the run, you may need more during heat up.
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Re: 6 inch column

Postby Mr. Rat » Sat Dec 28, 2013 12:29 am

Thanks myles my new plan is to have 4 5500 watt elements two with 240 and two 120. I might make one of the 120s interchangeable with 240 for heat up. On second thought i should use 3 at 240 and one at 120 with the right controller i could get any amount of watts i want. The whole thing is gonna be insulated like crazy.
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Re: 6 inch column

Postby myles » Sat Dec 28, 2013 2:32 am

Have you got the supply circuit and breakers to cope with that? The controller isn't really the issue - it is the current carrying capacity of the circuit. 5500 watt at 240v equates to 22.9 Amps for each element.

Now for exposed twin and earth cable pinned directly to a wall (not in plaster) you could in theory get away with 2.5 mm CSA cable. However because of the extended run times I would really want to upgrade by 1 cable size at least. 4 mm CSA cable not in plaster is rated at 36 Amps.

These are just generalisations as I haven't looked at a whole load of other factors.
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Re: 6 inch column

Postby Mr. Rat » Sat Dec 28, 2013 11:07 am

Im right next to my circuit breaker and i got plenty of power and know how. Just got to add another breaker a 100 amp 240 should do for two of the new elements. I just got my 8" about an hour ago 4'-10" should be plenty. I have been thinking i took a plate out of my current rig because i like the flavor output of three plates so why even bother with a fourth plate and plate disablers. So kiss it is three plates and a fores drain on the top plate, and instead of cip i am just going to put a hose bib attachment at the parrot hookup so i can just flood the hole thing and drain into the boiler.
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Re: 6 inch column

Postby Mr. Rat » Mon Dec 30, 2013 3:45 am

Here is the 8" i got. The first thing im gonna do is lay out the eccentric reducer for it.
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Re: 6 inch column

Postby Mr. Rat » Tue Dec 31, 2013 12:19 pm

Ok so I have been thinking about the plate design allot. At first i was thinking of doing allot of 3/4" or 1" caps then i started to think of the single large cap designs. With the smaller caps it will have more mass transfer but more restriction with the larger cap less mass transfer and less restriction also less work. From what i have read there isnt many if any real draw backs of a single cap design. What do you guys think.
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Re: 6 inch column

Postby myles » Wed Jan 01, 2014 5:54 pm

My understanding, which could be wrong, is this.

Lots of small caps if you wish to produce vodka. 1 big cap (aka Kothe) if you want FLAVOUR.

What do you want from your column?
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Re: 6 inch column

Postby Mr. Rat » Thu Jan 02, 2014 1:38 am

No vodka or neutral out of this rig. I mostly make whisky and i might try my hand at rum some time later. I have seen the kothe caps they look strange to me but if they work more power to em. What i did see on them was the really small down comers they used they looked like 3/4 on a 8 inch rig. I used 1/2 on my 4" bubbler and never had any issues with flooding. That said i think 1 1/4 should be fine but if not then i will move up to 1 1/2.
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Re: 6 inch column

Postby Mr. Rat » Thu Jan 02, 2014 1:53 pm

So i got a little work done today not much just been to lazy. I cut a bunch of 3" up for plates and 4" caps. Man it sucks to try to anneal 3" with a mapp gas torch but with the help of a 45000 btu propane heater i got it done. In case your wondering thats a quart jar with white dog and vanilla coke.
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Re: 6 inch column

Postby Mr. Rat » Thu Jan 02, 2014 1:56 pm

On closer inspection the picture doesnt do it justice they look much bigger in real life.
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Re: 6 inch column

Postby Mr. Rat » Fri Jan 03, 2014 2:35 pm

The 4" caps are made i just have to cut the notches in them.
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Re: 6 inch column

Postby Mr. Rat » Fri Jan 03, 2014 3:42 pm

So i said it on another forum the cats out the bag i am planning on goin legal soon
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Re: 6 inch column

Postby Zombie » Sat Jan 04, 2014 12:12 am

Mr. Rat wrote:So i got a little work done today not much just been to lazy. I cut a bunch of 3" up for plates and 4" caps. Man it sucks to try to anneal 3" with a mapp gas torch but with the help of a 45000 btu propane heater i got it done. In case your wondering thats a quart jar with white dog and vanilla coke.


Are you flattening out pipe, and hand hammering all your parts?

I may need to be "put down" soon.
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Re: 6 inch column

Postby Mr. Rat » Sat Jan 04, 2014 12:40 am

Yes i am no need to buy fittings when you can make them
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Re: 6 inch column

Postby Zombie » Sat Jan 04, 2014 7:48 am

Respect! I enjoy building, and completely understand the motivation in hand crafting your bits.

Often times my A.D.D. takes over, and I wind up with a completely different project. Kudos to you Mr. Rat!

I may need to be "put down" soon.
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Re: 6 inch column

Postby Moscca » Sat Jan 04, 2014 8:27 am

Very nice Mr. Rat !
I'm also building a 8,5" column with 3 plates for mostly rum.
The idea is also to go with a single bubble cap/plate.
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Re: 6 inch column

Postby Mr. Rat » Mon Jan 06, 2014 2:59 am

Thanks guys the old lady just back to town so not much work getting done. Moscca you gotta get that house done so you can start on your column again.
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Re: 6 inch column

Postby Mr. Rat » Tue Jan 07, 2014 3:00 pm

Military service and war can tear a man up i tell you what. I am only 30 years old and everything hurts. My wrist is gone from turning a tank turret manually my back is gonw from humping packs and ramming stuff. Not to mention all the times i got hit by ieds. I want to work but my body wont let me anymore. I give everything i got at work and when i get home i can barely hold a grinder. The va is a joke all they want to do is give me pain pills i dont want pills just fix it make the pain go away. I dont care what it takes i dont want pills. Sorry for my rant its just really getting to me right now.
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Re: 6 inch column

Postby Zombie » Tue Jan 07, 2014 5:56 pm

Hey Rat, The only reason Stilli'n is illegal (IMHO) is because our governments want control of fuel. They run thru young men like old car tires in order to maintain this control, and say "Thank you for your service' AS THEY THROW YOU TO THE SIDE OF THE ROAD.

More importantly... You know what you have given, and you can be proud of yourself for taking that beating. To few men are GOOD men. Too few men care enough for their country to offer their lives without question.
You may have taken that beating for an uncertain cause but in the end you have my utmost respect for being a true man. You are in our prayers tonight Rat. Tomorrow will always be better!

I may need to be "put down" soon.
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Re: 6 inch column

Postby Mr. Rat » Tue Jan 14, 2014 1:03 am

I got the 8" ferrules i ordered so i got to work on the pipe. Od of the pipe is 8 5/8" the same as the face of the ferrule. I had to reduce the pipe a bit to make everything copasetic .
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Re: 6 inch column

Postby Swedish Pride » Wed Jun 08, 2016 1:45 am

since you are back, what happened to this build, got a finished pic?
Also did the legal distillery take off at all or did you put the cat back in the bag?
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Re: 6 inch column

Postby Mr. Rat » Wed Jun 08, 2016 3:31 am

Life happened lost alot of things and legal went down the river. I still have everything but am going back to the drawing board for this.
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Re: 6 inch column

Postby Swedish Pride » Wed Jun 08, 2016 7:02 pm

Damn shame man, hope you landed on your feet.
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Re: 6 inch column

Postby bigfoot » Fri Jun 10, 2016 5:18 pm

Re heating - I often wonder why larger builds don't use gas and bulk fire to start the process and then use electro juice to keep it running. The hybrid heater if you will...would offer the best of both, but would also be safer as by the time alc would be expelled, you'd be on electricity...
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Re: 6 inch column

Postby Mr. Rat » Sat Jun 11, 2016 4:41 am

I have pondered on this as well. For me I think about lost BTUs on the bottom without insulation and a chance of scorching a cord. The expedient heat up would hit the wallet a bit harder as well. Where I live is unbelievably stupid hot in the summer 120/49+ air temp, so I think about keeping every bit of heat in the boiler without getting me hot. It's also loud and I like to listen to music when I run. In my own conclusion, while it would be perfect for some, my needs would preclude it due to its very nature of putting out mass amounts of BTUs.
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