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8 Tees and 9 Bubble plates

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8 Tees and 9 Bubble plates

Postby RefluxEd » Fri Mar 13, 2015 4:23 pm

Wow!, Just finished doing a spirit run on a 200 litre TPW that had been stripped down to 50 litres. Having bought a few more Tees I thought to see how the full complement would work for doing a clean neutral.
The yeast used was Uvaferm 43.
It's the best, cleanest neutral ever! Diluted to 40% it is as smooth as drinking spring water. :handgestures-thumbupright:
In other words, downright dangerous. :-o
Apologies for the messy garage, I've just taken on a boarder and his stuff had to go somewhere. :confusion-shrug:
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2 inch BOKA/LM/VM
Bubbler with 14 4x3x4 inch tees and 15 bubble plates under a 4 inch section under the dephlagmator (RC).
2 inch Pot still.
2 inch to 4 inch Gin head.
2x 1.2 mtre Leibig condensors.
2 inch x 800 mm shotgun condenser.
Love it!
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Re: 8 Tees and 9 Bubble plates

Postby Zombie » Sat Mar 14, 2015 6:08 am

I hope you don't mind if I call you Captain Insane"O", and your rig "The Insane-in-ator"!!!!! :grin: :grin:

That is one of the coolest rigs around. I can only imagine the product. "Dangerous" indeed.

How much power did it take to run w/ 8 plates? It must have been beautiful running.

:bow-blue:

I may need to be "put down" soon.
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Re: 8 Tees and 9 Bubble plates

Postby RefluxEd » Sat Mar 14, 2015 11:54 am

Hi ya Zombie,
First 35 minutes was with a 4 ring gas burner flat out.
As soon as vapour was seen (you have to be on your toes) it was backed off to the 2 inner rings at about half gas flow. I still wasn't quite on the ball as there was a little bit of flooding in the bottom Tee.
Then it was on full reflux for 45 minutes to stabilise everything.
After that started closing off the reflux condensor water supply until the temperature above the condensor started to rise. At 68C took off feints and heads at a slowish rate. This took a bit over an hour and ended up with 3.5 litres of nasties that you wouldn't want to drink. It may seem a bit much to some, but I can detect heads in nearly every spirit I buy, so I suppose you could call me a "Heads Nazi" ;-)
As I'm still learning how to drive this rig I probably went too slow. The product run took about 12 hours (only 2 hours faster than my 2 inch BOKA) at a 1.5mm thick stream. Every hour this would back off to a dribble so I'd turn up the gas a bit to get it back to a decent flow.
When the run finished I initially thought it wasn't too good but after a sleep and with a fresh head it turned out to be the smoothest, cleanest neutral that I've ever done. :handgestures-thumbupright:

As I'm still learning how to drive this bubbler, I'd really appreciate any suggestions or tricks to improve and speed up the operation.
2 inch BOKA/LM/VM
Bubbler with 14 4x3x4 inch tees and 15 bubble plates under a 4 inch section under the dephlagmator (RC).
2 inch Pot still.
2 inch to 4 inch Gin head.
2x 1.2 mtre Leibig condensors.
2 inch x 800 mm shotgun condenser.
Love it!
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RefluxEd
 
Posts: 139
Joined: Fri Jan 17, 2014 6:10 pm

Re: 8 Tees and 9 Bubble plates

Postby RefluxEd » Sat Mar 14, 2015 12:14 pm

BTW, I killed the run at 85% and ended up with 18 litres @ 92%.
Yesterday I did a gin run with it which resulted in the loveliest gin I've made yet. Even with substituting mandarin rind for tangello (out of season) the taste is exceptional.
With Noilly Prat Original Dry vermouth and a couple of green olives it makes a sensational martini.
I can hardly wait to try it on the ladies with a G&T :romance-lovegoddess: A real panty dropper!

So thats what 8 Tees and 9 bubble plates can do. :lol:
2 inch BOKA/LM/VM
Bubbler with 14 4x3x4 inch tees and 15 bubble plates under a 4 inch section under the dephlagmator (RC).
2 inch Pot still.
2 inch to 4 inch Gin head.
2x 1.2 mtre Leibig condensors.
2 inch x 800 mm shotgun condenser.
Love it!
User avatar
RefluxEd
 
Posts: 139
Joined: Fri Jan 17, 2014 6:10 pm

Re: 8 Tees and 9 Bubble plates

Postby Zombie » Sat Mar 14, 2015 2:21 pm

Sensational! I love it.

The time would kill me but I get it! Good things come to those who wait.

You definitely have a balancing act going on. Too much power, and flooding, too little, and no loading. Then you throw in Reflux... Like driving a cruise ship I would imagine.

In Theory you could get the same results w/ a hybrid packed / plated, column. You could throw more power, and less reflux speeding up the run. Something like four plates, and 3 foot of packed tower should be very close, and easier to manage. I would certainly recommend centering rings at the top, and again about mid way in the packed section. vapor / reflux interaction is KEY to getting a good separation. If your reflux is wicking down the column wall you might as well not have it.

I may need to be "put down" soon.
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Re: 8 Tees and 9 Bubble plates

Postby RefluxEd » Sat Mar 14, 2015 9:51 pm

Hi Zombie,
Each bubbleplate is completely sealed on the walls, the only pathway through is via the bubble caps or downcomers. From what I've read on still theory so far about 300mm of packed section equals 1 bubbleplate, so your 3 feet of packed section equals 3 bubbleplates.
On my original 2 inch BOKA I used 1.2 metres of packed section (which equals 4 bubbleplates) and I never got anything as smooth as with this 9 bubbleplate setup.
One of my "gunnados" is to build a 4 inch modular section with BOKA separation plate, another for reflux re-entry. As this run took so long, I'm not sure that I can do it in 1/4 of the time on the bubbleplate. However with a 4 inch BOKA, everything being equal, (a 4 inch column has 4 times the cross sectional area of a 2 inch column) I should run 4 times faster with a 4 inch BOKA. Imagine that, on 9 bubbleplates you'd need a ladder to set it up. :lol:
Here's my rather rough sketch plan:
BOKA 4 inch.jpg


And of course, 9 bubbleplates under that. You'll notice that the tails can be taken off by the over the top section. I'll probably not worry about that (who cares about tails?) and just use a blockhead for the product path.
An interesting experiment.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
2 inch BOKA/LM/VM
Bubbler with 14 4x3x4 inch tees and 15 bubble plates under a 4 inch section under the dephlagmator (RC).
2 inch Pot still.
2 inch to 4 inch Gin head.
2x 1.2 mtre Leibig condensors.
2 inch x 800 mm shotgun condenser.
Love it!
User avatar
RefluxEd
 
Posts: 139
Joined: Fri Jan 17, 2014 6:10 pm

Re: 8 Tees and 9 Bubble plates

Postby Zombie » Sun Mar 15, 2015 3:58 pm

When I referred to "wicking I did mean in the packed section. Its a non issue w/ plates, and down-comers.

I'm not sure I follow your idea there. Tails would never make it past a reflux condenser while still allowing product take off, and I don't understand what the tube on the right side represents.
Is that the take off?

I get the boka plate, and the return / reflux idea but if you were to simply shut off the boka plate outlet then the reflux would simply overflow the plate, and avoid the extra plumbing.

I do get fancifull, and playing with different ideas. That's what led me to this forum.
The members here are the only ones that would put up w/ me. :handgestures-thumbupright:

As far as a three foot (=4 plate packed section) that sounds about right. (depending on the packing). It would be a hell of a lot easier to run, and I do believe faster.
The quality difference is up to you to determine.

I have a lot of respect for anyone that wants to experiment with new ideas. It's how the world develops. Sometimes you have to take one step back, and see if something is redundant or really serving a useful purpose. That's what I mean about the return in the boka circuit. I don't see where that will help anything. :confusion-shrug:

Maybe I just missed something... ;-)

I may need to be "put down" soon.
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Zombie
 
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Re: 8 Tees and 9 Bubble plates

Postby RefluxEd » Sun Mar 15, 2015 6:11 pm

Zombie wrote:I'm not sure I follow your idea there. Tails would never make it past a reflux condenser while still allowing product take off, and I don't understand what the tube on the right side represents.
Is that the take off?


The valve on the side takeoff is for the product condesor. When the product is finished the valve is turned off, the reflux condensor is turned off and tales (if needed) goes out over the top. :handgestures-thumbupright:
2 inch BOKA/LM/VM
Bubbler with 14 4x3x4 inch tees and 15 bubble plates under a 4 inch section under the dephlagmator (RC).
2 inch Pot still.
2 inch to 4 inch Gin head.
2x 1.2 mtre Leibig condensors.
2 inch x 800 mm shotgun condenser.
Love it!
User avatar
RefluxEd
 
Posts: 139
Joined: Fri Jan 17, 2014 6:10 pm

Re: 8 Tees and 9 Bubble plates

Postby Zombie » Mon Mar 16, 2015 4:17 am

Ok.

It's kind of backwards. Tails is a heavier vapor, and is easier to keep below the RC, and EtOH being lighter is collected after the RC.

If you just swap those two it will work better for you.

I may need to be "put down" soon.
User avatar
Zombie
 
Posts: 1589
Joined: Fri Dec 20, 2013 8:11 am
Location: The best part of the USA

Re: 8 Tees and 9 Bubble plates

Postby RefluxEd » Mon Mar 16, 2015 9:53 am

I wouldn't do that as that would defeat the purpose of the experiment which is to trial a 4 inch BOKA.
Your idea would turn it into a fractionating column with one takeoff, sort of like they do for making petrol.
A BOKA gives a really tight control of the vapour with almost no smearing.
I had to go to 9 plates to get a clean neutral performance in a bubbler that exceeded my old 2 inch BOKA.
I'm actually not interested much in tails, but if I wanted them all that's need is to close the 2 inch valve, turn off the water supply to the RC and the tails will go over the top. The molecular weight doesn't really apply here.
I have 3 spare leibig condensors so adding that to the exercise costs nothing.
2 inch BOKA/LM/VM
Bubbler with 14 4x3x4 inch tees and 15 bubble plates under a 4 inch section under the dephlagmator (RC).
2 inch Pot still.
2 inch to 4 inch Gin head.
2x 1.2 mtre Leibig condensors.
2 inch x 800 mm shotgun condenser.
Love it!
User avatar
RefluxEd
 
Posts: 139
Joined: Fri Jan 17, 2014 6:10 pm


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