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StillDragon Risers/Bubblecaps

Hubble bubble toil and trouble

StillDragon Risers/Bubblecaps

Postby troglodyte » Wed Oct 17, 2012 8:43 pm

Hi all, I recently purchased a single complete 4" StillDragon bubble T section from Punkin (thanks for your help mate, greatly appreciated) to evaluate for someone else for a commercial operation. The quality of workmanship as well as finish on all components is impressive, really nice stuff.
These are my findings, not critisism, any and all opinions welcome.

I found some differences in how the plate runs, compared to my column. A typical run for my column is using 3 to 6 plates, single run, no stripping (I don't see the point with these plated columns) of either all grain, thin mash uj style, rum etc. typical abv 6 to 12%. typically I can run 5000+w with a high reflux ratio allowing a collection rate of around 4l an hour, holding close to 90% using 3 plates, 4 plates 92% etc.

I installed the S/D section on top of my column fitted with 3 plates and proceded to do a run of uj style thin mash of around 8%. Imediately during stabilisation under full reflux the S/D plate was flooding half way up the sight glass. power off.
starting with less power input and working up to where the plate would flood, 3600w was all it would handle. I finished the run taking noticibly more time keeping the abv at 90+% than I am used to. after having a good look at the downcomber I figured it could be the problem, it only has around 2.5mm of effective fluid depth (on the bottom side) which I didn't figure would take much if any pressure for vapour to overpower it.
I modified the downcomber to give around 20mm fluid to vapour depth, did another run and nothing changed, the plate flooded with the same power.
The only other culprit would be the vapour path in the risers. 7/64" holes x 8 in each S/D riser, I opened them up to 5/32" which gives something like 90% more area. did another run and no more flooding, even at 6000+w. I don't see this having any negative effect as the bubble action is regulated by the slots in the caps.

It wasn't until I was introducing myself this morning that I watched a post by Punkin, youtube of the Doctor doing a malt whiskey run. At around 6 minutes in when he's stabilising the column you can clearly see the same flooding that I experienced. I dont believe (and if you have thermometers at each plate you will see what I mean) the column can be stabilised and different fractions stacked when the column is in this state.
see it here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DY15-dG_ ... e=youtu.be

In my opinion to achieve product output that is worthy of using a 4" column, the vapour path in the S/D risers needs to be enlarged.

This is not critisism of the StillDragon product, it's made well, produces a great product just like it was intended. Though if time is valuable it can be sped up.

Trog.
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Re: StillDragon Risers/Bubblecaps

Postby troglodyte » Wed Oct 17, 2012 9:19 pm

minime wrote: So excessive pressure buildup below the plate?


hi minime, thats the way I see it. I guess I should have stated that in my plates I used 1/2" copper tube as risers, my biggest restriction would be the slots in the caps. the S/Dragons biggest restriction is the riser with much bigger windows in the caps than I made mine.
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Re: StillDragon Risers/Bubblecaps

Postby troglodyte » Wed Oct 17, 2012 10:31 pm

Hi Fester, plate flooding I guess is open to ones definition, to me if the plate has fluid well over and above the downcomber then it's not draining which means it's not doing it's job.Thermometers placed on each plate will show that the temp of those plates is not stable and several degrees higher than a plate that is stabilized and draining at the downcomber height.
I don't believe the plate is draining through the risers. All the caps are continuously bubbling rappidly. the fluid on the plate is at the downcomber level, with a torch you can easily see the fluid flowing into the downcomber.
Having a deeper fluid level as some like is fine as long as it is that way because the downcomber is at that height, if the fluid level is higher than the downcomber, im my opinion that plate is not giving great sepperation, will have a higher temperature and contain a lower abv.

I know your saying the top plate can flood because it catches all the reflux. I'd argue that each plate see's a significant amount of reflux. Have a close look at the Doctors Malt vid from the 6 minute point onwards.

Please, I am not trying to say your plates don't work, I just think that a higher output is possible while retaining excellent sepperation.

Oh and by the way, Awesome job on producing such high quality components. Congratulations.
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Re: StillDragon Risers/Bubblecaps

Postby troglodyte » Thu Oct 18, 2012 7:54 am

Fester wrote:Oh no, Trog, your comments, experiments and observations are a great asset to all of us, I surely take it as constructive.
Law of Ohms' thread viewtopic.php?f=20&t=442&p=4098#p4098 has been haunting me because I'd like to know if enlarging the vent holes in the risers will have the effect of allowing a plate to drain through the riser as his does. Just because its still bubbling, and logically we would think the positive pressure would keep the fluid pushed back, I still think it possible, even probable that the fluid is draining through the modified risers.
IF it is, its not a bad thing at all. It would be yet one more tool in our new found bag of tricks to play with.


The bit I don't get is if enlarging the holes in the risers allows fluid to drain back through them, then why didn't that fluid drain through the downcomber in the first place ? and not let the plate flood ? The downcomber will drain liters a minute, much much more fluid than the amount of vapour we can push. pressure is the culprit.

I no longer have my column with sight glasses. so looking at the bottom side of the S/D plate for evaluation is going to take another S/D bubble section.
Maybe a loaner :mrgreen: from Punkin for further research :?: Keep in mind there is going to be reflux from all over the bottom of the upper plate simply because of it's cooler temp than the vapour below it. My money is on the downcomber doing all the draining work.
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Re: StillDragon Risers/Bubblecaps

Postby troglodyte » Thu Oct 18, 2012 7:57 am

Oh, Thanks for the kind words as well as explanation of the operation Fester, was really hoping I wasn't walking on thin ice when I started this thread.
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Re: StillDragon Risers/Bubblecaps

Postby Tracker » Thu Oct 18, 2012 9:26 am

I don't understand your reasoning here Trog.
If the plates are flooding, then surely the bubblers must be allowing sufficient vapours through, otherwise there would be nothing to condense. If the plates are flooding then surely it must be a restriction in the downcomer. The cup for my downcomer is an inverted bubble cap. Is yours the same?
To improve the liquid flow of the downcomer, could you not bend out or remove some of the bubble cap leg sections to allow for the increased flow. Or by all means, drill out the drain hole size in the downcomer. I believe that if there is a restriction, this is possibly where it could be found.


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Re: StillDragon Risers/Bubblecaps

Postby troglodyte » Thu Oct 18, 2012 9:45 am

Tracker wrote:I don't understand your reasoning here Trog.
If the plates are flooding, then surely the bubblers must be allowing sufficient vapours through, otherwise there would be nothing to condense. If the plates are flooding then surely it must be a restriction in the downcomer. The cup for my downcomer is an inverted bubble cap. Is yours the same?
To improve the liquid flow of the downcomer, could you not bend out or remove some of the bubble cap leg sections to allow for the increased flow. Or by all means, drill out the drain hole size in the downcomer. I believe that if there is a restriction, this is possibly where it could be found.
Cheers.


Hi tracker, as per my first post I played with the downcomber. I deepend the liquid depth (on the bottom side under the plate) by replacing the bubble cap piece with a section of 1" copper, as well as lengthening the inner downcomber. This changed nothing and the plate still flooded.
The bubblecap downcomber is capable of flowing liters of fluid a minute, much more than the amount of vapour any of us would produce.

What I found, for the volume of vapour I'm pushing is the vapour path in the risers is not large enough, allowing some pressure to be built which stops the downcomber from working properly, allowing the fluid level on the plate to build up.

The plates work fine and do a great job. Though if you want (in my opinion) to be able to hold a high abv whilst having a product take off rate worthy of what a 4" column is capable of, then the vapour holes in the risers need to be inlarged.
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Re: StillDragon Risers/Bubblecaps

Postby Tracker » Thu Oct 18, 2012 9:57 am

Ah! so you are surmising a pressure build up under the plate because of the flow rate through the bubblers is preventing (or rather slowing) the return rate through the downcomer.

OK, i will go with that.


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Re: StillDragon Risers/Bubblecaps

Postby Swede » Thu Oct 18, 2012 11:11 am

I have no problem running 4-4.2kW in my column, unlike the 2500-3000w Larry mentioned. I find that i cannot flood any plates aside from my bottom one, when running normally. I've even been able to throw 9kw at it, and it floods from liquid blowup from the violently boiling liquids, not the reflux (evidenced by wash loading the bottom plates while the top plates bubble normally)

Downcomer flow and bubble cap riser vapor flow must be balanced, with the larger flow margin going to the downcomers. I used wier typed downcomers in my column and 1/2 ss tube risers. I"ve never calculated the vapor flow area, but I imagine it's similar to the area created by trog when he drilled out the risers (if not more)

I think that there may be two available areas of improvement that would allow Dash users to realize higher takeoff rates and/or better separation while maximizing useablility.

Of course I speak from my own experience based on the equip I built and run currently. I certainly see what trog is saying though, and think it bears some consideration. I've been able to successfully run at rates in the 3 ish LPH range with my setup and the only plate that has higher fluid level is the bottom one with a double tube/"cap" downcomer.

My build http://www.artisan-distiller.net/phpBB3 ... =61&t=4963
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Re: StillDragon Risers/Bubblecaps

Postby highball » Thu Oct 18, 2012 6:03 pm

I drilled my risers out to 5/32" and every other hole to 7/32", also my down comers are drilled out to 7/32".
Since drilling I can throw more power at it, 2800 was about as hard as I could run, now 4300 watts is the sweet spot in the configuration I run.
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Re: StillDragon Risers/Bubblecaps

Postby FullySilenced » Fri Oct 19, 2012 12:34 am

Would not re-machine the risers... would make a second set one for High volume production and one for low volume production or until the inventory is depleted... You can always provide the data to the end user which would allow him to modify the low production risers to high production ones.. Some users will never require 1 gal per hour.....

Just a thought,

FS
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Re: StillDragon Risers/Bubblecaps

Postby FullySilenced » Fri Oct 19, 2012 1:55 am

if the smallest id of the copper downcomber is aprox..13mm then opening the holes to 4.5 mm will get you a total area very close to that of the 13mm bore..

if hole diameter is limited the option if more flow is needed would be to slot the holes or at least a few of them...

FS

and 4.5mm drills are a std size so should have no issue in that one..
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Re: StillDragon Risers/Bubblecaps

Postby troglodyte » Fri Oct 19, 2012 8:15 am

Hi Cooperville, The beauty of the larger vapour holes (as FullySilenced pointed out, I opened the holes up to pretty much equal the area of the risers bore which is 12mm) is that you can still run at your old take off rate, this mod doesn't suddenly increase output, but it gives you the option to do so if you wish, without the plate flooding.
The bubble "action" on the plate is determined by the size/shape/placement of the slots in the bubblecap.
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Re: StillDragon Risers/Bubblecaps

Postby scarecrow » Fri Oct 19, 2012 8:28 am

Reading this thread makes me think of a rainwater collecting system from your roof. They always say if you have a larger outlet than inlet on your tank, it will never flood and overflow the guttering.

Same here. I can visualise the pressure build up on the downcomer.
I remember OD making a single 2" bubble cap (for simplicity I think). Would it be possible to reverse this idea. ie a large downcomer with a few more (smaller) bubblecaps, say 6 instead of 4.
This way the plates can drain freely without risk of pressure holding it up.
I'm just wondering whether a weir system would be more efficient as compared to downcomer tubes.
I don't own a plate still, so I'm just brain farting here.

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Re: StillDragon Risers/Bubblecaps

Postby FullySilenced » Fri Oct 19, 2012 11:27 am

Looks like 4.5 mm or a number 16 drill is the size to go with.... on opening up the downcomers

or as least with the dimension i have been given at this juncture. Have fun hope this helps.

FS
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Re: StillDragon Risers/Bubblecaps

Postby troglodyte » Fri Oct 19, 2012 11:37 am

FullySilenced wrote:Looks like 4.5 mm or a number 16 drill is the size to go with.... on opening up the downcomers
or as least with the dimension i have been given at this juncture. Have fun hope this helps.
FS


I'm not quite sure how the 4.5mm size came about. 5/32" or 4mm guys is optimal and all that is required. 4.5mm gives a greater area than the bore of the riser which is 12mm so no gain to be had by going bigger, you will just end up with a thinner section that holds the threaded top of the riser on.

Great to hear positive feedback on this mod.
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Re: StillDragon Risers/Bubblecaps

Postby FullySilenced » Fri Oct 19, 2012 11:43 am

I was given a 13mm dimension and read 12mm on the website... didn't have one in hand to measure... just ran the numbers from what i was given...

FS

I asked Punkin for the Inside diameters of the copper and the old brass downcomers not heard back from him as of yet..
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Re: StillDragon Risers/Bubblecaps

Postby troglodyte » Sun Oct 21, 2012 7:33 am

minime wrote:Drilling the risers works! I was able to run 4500 watts full reflux for 10 minutes without flooding the plate right at the start of the run when there's lots of juice coming down. 8-)


Good stuff minime, now what are you going to do with all that spare time 8-)
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Re: StillDragon Risers/Bubblecaps

Postby troglodyte » Sun Oct 21, 2012 7:47 am

Cooperville wrote:Sorry to ask again is it recommended that i drill out both the risers and the down comer or just the risers
i see minime has just added a custom down comer but if i wanted to keep the SD down comer would i drill this out also :?:


Hi Cooperville, I'm not sure if the downcombers have changed over time, mine is copper, with 6 holes now 4.5mm, I can't remember the original hole dia
as I also deepend the downcomber. It did it differently to minime which required me to run a drill through the holes to clear them, cant remember
if I made them larger. can someone please tell me the std hole size.

I don't think anyone will have problems with the std downcomber hole size, even one 4mm hole would drain liters a minute, thats way more vapour/reflux than any of us will produce.
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Re: StillDragon Risers/Bubblecaps

Postby troglodyte » Sun Oct 21, 2012 7:58 am

law-of-ohms wrote:can someone post output volume l/hr or gal / hr


Hi law-of-ohms,I did a run yesterday, 3 plates, holding above 90% for the hearts, collecting in 500ml jars, which averaged out at over 4l an hour, and that was not pushing it to the limit. this was from a wash of around 8% abv.
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Re: StillDragon Risers/Bubblecaps

Postby Al Q » Tue Oct 23, 2012 6:01 am

Interesting topic. Most of the chat is about there being an increase in pressure under the plate, I'm wondering what folks think about the knock on effect on the topside of the plate.
I don't have enough power available to cause the problem flooding some folks are experiencing, I'm running a 2" SPP packed column on top of a single bubble ball. The BB lets me push more power into the column, but when I switched to SPP I had to reduce my max running power by 700w else the column flooded.

I had an idea to run a line from an LM slanted plate opposite the VM take off to the BB at the bottom of the column. My thinking was diverting a little portion of the reflux around the packing would mean there was less liquid to cause the flooding. What I found was there was a pressure difference from the top of the column to the BB below. The liquid was pushed much higher up the tubing that the level of the P trap, and at higher powers vapour was bubbling through the liquid even with the P trap in place.

I'm now wondering if drilling out the holes will remedy this issue, or if there is an inherent pressure differential at the top and bottom or all columns (or columns loaded with SPP).
Thoughts?
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Re: StillDragon Risers/Bubblecaps

Postby Prairiepiss » Tue Oct 23, 2012 8:29 am

Good thread. Nice to see everyone working together for the common cause.

I'm just trying to figure out how people are getting these numbers? I'm sure the 4" has some to do with it. But I was trying to compare the heat input you guys are using to mine. I know I don't have a SD setup. But its still cornfusing me. Like how the heck are you running over 4k and not flooding? When I have a 3/4" downcomer and 4 1" upcomers. With a 2" vapor path all the way through my plate. But yet mine will still flood at 4k input. It's just not making since to me?
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Re: StillDragon Risers/Bubblecaps

Postby Al Q » Tue Oct 23, 2012 8:30 am

Smaug wrote:So far I just don't see any down side. It may not remedy your issue but i can't see it making the issue worse.


Agreed, I'm going to give it a try.
But if anyone has any insight on whether there is usually a pressure difference within a packed column running the standard config i'd be interested to hear it. I know some of the eastern europeans use sensitive pressure switches to control the power (rather than pulling a vacuum) to push past the usual azeotrope up to over 97%, but haven't seen much discussion of that on the english sites.
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Re: StillDragon Risers/Bubblecaps

Postby FullySilenced » Tue Oct 23, 2012 8:49 am

http://homedistiller.org/theory/theory I had to look it up if you want to read the theory...
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Re: StillDragon Risers/Bubblecaps

Postby Al Q » Tue Oct 23, 2012 5:44 pm

Thanks for that guys, and thanks for putting up with me dragging the discussion slightly off topic. I'll make the mod and give it another go, I'd probably need the return to be going into a deeper pool of liquid (something like an inline thumper) rather than just a P trap to avoid the vapour blow back.

If it dies a death after that then at least I'll have tried. Just curious to try to see how much can be squeezed out of this plate\column config in apartment sized dimensions.
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Re: StillDragon Risers/Bubblecaps

Postby Brigand » Wed Oct 31, 2012 9:21 am

So what is the consensus 4mm or 4.5mm?

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Re: StillDragon Risers/Bubblecaps

Postby Philter » Wed Oct 31, 2012 9:29 am

All 6 of my Downcomers were drilled to 7/32" / 5.5mm, and I've left the risers untouched.

Running a 50L charge at 3.6kW, and under 100% reflux (Dephlegm stuffed with copper scrubbies), I still suffer from flooding on my Dash.
If I also drill the Risers to 5.5mm, would this subject the plates to faster flooding? or help drain.
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Re: StillDragon Risers/Bubblecaps

Postby Philter » Wed Oct 31, 2012 3:24 pm

Thanks minime, I guess it comes down to the basics. Do some drilling to relieve the pressure :lol:
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Re: StillDragon Risers/Bubblecaps

Postby Prairiepiss » Thu Nov 01, 2012 2:14 am

I agree with Smaug. If the plate is still working and not contaminating the plate above. Is it really flooding? Is it a bad thing for the liquid depth to be a little deeper? As long as its not hampering the plate above or below it? So far in my set up the best run I have had was one where the liquid level was well above the set level for that run. Which brings me to my next question.

Does this flooding you all speek of happen with any still charge? By that I mean a fresh wash or a stripped higher ABV wash. I haven't nailed mine down yet. But it will have a higher liquid level when charged with a fresh wash. Then it will with a higher ABV still charge. Basically I tried to recreate the higher liquid levels I had with my good run with a low ABV wash. When I ran an all feints run. And couldn't do it. If I cranked the heat up the vapors would overcome my dephlegmater. Instead of returning as reflux. Where the lower ABV wash the dephlegmater would knock them all back down and I could get the levels to rise. I think the is more to it then that. But this is all I have came up with so far. I think the viscocity of the different ABV liquids have something to do with it to. But haven't had a chance to dig into that yet.
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Re: StillDragon Risers/Bubblecaps

Postby troglodyte » Thu Nov 01, 2012 8:05 am

Prairiepiss wrote:I agree with Smaug. If the plate is still working and not contaminating the plate above. Is it really flooding? Is it a bad thing for the liquid depth to be a little deeper? As long as its not hampering the plate above or below it? So far in my set up the best run I have had was one where the liquid level was well above the set level for that run. Which brings me to my next question.


If the liquid level on each or any plate is allowed to get higher than the top of the downcomber, im my mind "flooding", the downcomber is not "working" as it should, results in poor sepperation, smearing, a loss of quality product volume.

A simple way to see this if anyone can be bothered, I have, can and do on every run, place a thermometer in the top vapour area of every plated section, or just the top plate for a simple test, use a thermowell that is open on the bottom to stop liquid reflux from dripping on the thermometer probe.
When the plates are in the "flooded" state you will notice the temperature on each plate will not completely stabilise. The temperature on each plate will also be higher, maybe as much as 2 degc, which tells me the fractions are not being stacked as we intend.
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Re: StillDragon Risers/Bubblecaps

Postby troglodyte » Thu Nov 01, 2012 8:13 am

law-of-ohms wrote:hmm, maybe increase the size of the downcomer holes


maybe some revision is in order :?
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Re: StillDragon Risers/Bubblecaps

Postby Philter » Thu Nov 01, 2012 3:07 pm

In my case,
minime wrote:
law-of-ohms wrote:when you say flooding, how much above the riser is the fluid level?

up in the glass area. Doc's video on youtube is flooded condition at 6 minutes if I recall correctly.


The fluid level was was almost touching the plate above. Next project is to enlarge the risers to 7/32" (5.5mm) and run another spirit run.
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Re: StillDragon Risers/Bubblecaps

Postby troglodyte » Thu Nov 01, 2012 4:04 pm

Philter wrote:In my case, The fluid level was was almost touching the plate above. Next project is to enlarge the risers to 7/32" (5.5mm) and run another spirit run.


I really don't see the point of enlarging the vapour holes any larger than has already been proven adequate. any larger than 4mm = a larger vapour path than the 12mm bore of the riser, all your doing is weakening the top of the riser where the cap screws on.
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Re: StillDragon Risers/Bubblecaps

Postby crozdog » Sat Feb 09, 2013 7:12 pm

pulled my plates apart today & drilled the risers out with a 4mm drill.

you can see the size difference in this pic.

2013-02-09 11.30.51small.jpg


now to find the time to try it out
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Re: StillDragon Risers/Bubblecaps

Postby Harry » Sat Feb 09, 2013 10:31 pm

Bigger holes brings the bottom edge of the hole below the downcomer drain height (check the pic's larger holes). Thus at rest you will have tray bath liquid draining via the riser. and under distillation you will have weeping via the same route. This is not really a problem if you never stop your distillation, but you'll lose some tray operating depth and thus mass transfer capability. Your plates will not meet their design efficiency. Meaning if you're running say 5 plates, in actual fact you're getting about 3 to 3.5 plates of efficiency. Waste of materials and money.

Is there a quick fix? Yes!!!

Open up a couple of slots. It's a way better option. Heaps more gas capacity. :grin:


2013-02-09%2011_30_51small.jpg
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Re: StillDragon Risers/Bubblecaps

Postby harley » Sun Feb 10, 2013 12:29 am

Hi Harry

You are on the right track there, but you have to look at the big picture too .....

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Re: StillDragon Risers/Bubblecaps

Postby Harry » Sun Feb 10, 2013 1:10 am

@Harley

I've used slotted risers. Almost as good as open-top risers. No gas restriction whatsoever. :)
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Re: StillDragon Risers/Bubblecaps

Postby Harry » Sun Feb 10, 2013 2:13 am

Jesus LLoyd. What's up your ass? All I'm trying to do is help. Remind me not to bother. And don't bother using the designs I sent you for the tray dump or valves either. I'll get someone else to do them. Your loss.
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Re: StillDragon Risers/Bubblecaps

Postby harley » Sun Feb 10, 2013 3:40 am

Friends, relax a little BOTH of YOU ....

All we want your-fester and Sd, s well-best,

I can only speak for me personally and I think that with Sd and you Fester that invests and develops products is admirable ...
You have my full support ... but if you do not get, or can be called putting a construction is when it becomes Never operate better, and this is what I and Harry and many of us are trying to accomplish ...

There is no offense, but rather the other way around ....

Take it easy and take care ...

We all want to have a so good as possibel and cheap produkt to both buy and sell....

Cheers :obscene-drinkingcheers:
Falbygdens Bränneri AB a legal commercial distilleries in Sweden that burns Swedish vodka on 20pc 8" Sieve plates and whiskey on 3pc 12" bubbelplate
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Re: StillDragon Risers/Bubblecaps

Postby harley » Sun Feb 10, 2013 3:49 am

I can say that Sd, s bubbelcaps with 4 mm hole has exact same distance from the flat bottom to the hole early as it is with 3mm hole ...
I have a hundred of each variety ....

the hole is moved up on the 4mm bubbelcaps to 3mm so you lose no fluid level with the new enhancements that are 4mm hole is ...

the result is that you have a little bit, just a bit smaller threads pulling screw with 4mm hole ... and it's thread so it will be over anyway ..

Cheers :obscene-drinkingcheers:
Falbygdens Bränneri AB a legal commercial distilleries in Sweden that burns Swedish vodka on 20pc 8" Sieve plates and whiskey on 3pc 12" bubbelplate
We are also on Facebook under our name
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Re: StillDragon Risers/Bubblecaps

Postby harley » Sun Feb 10, 2013 8:56 am

Fester

Are you talking to me, if so i relly dont nowe what you are talkingh about...

All my small bubbelcaps that a have bought from you is fitting perfekt.

50% was with 3mm hole that a have drill to 4mm so the have same mm3 that mainhole have, but a have drilled them as yours factory have, so a dont gets any lower licuidlevel....

That am saying is that old riser with 3mm hole and the new and better one( more -better flow) with 4mm hole have same height from plate that they are sitting in to bottom of drill hole, so they new one have NO lower licuodlevel....

So the hole in riser have been moving little to the top of riser when the drill 4mm hole so licuid level height is same with 3mm hole as it is with 4mm hole..
and with this they gets a little less treading in top for bolts to grabb,,, but it is more than enouth left anyway..

Cheers :obscene-drinkingcheers:
Falbygdens Bränneri AB a legal commercial distilleries in Sweden that burns Swedish vodka on 20pc 8" Sieve plates and whiskey on 3pc 12" bubbelplate
We are also on Facebook under our name
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Re: StillDragon Risers/Bubblecaps

Postby troglodyte » Sun Feb 10, 2013 9:39 am

All you need to do Harry is look at the bottom of the
Risers during a run from the sight glass below to see that
There is no "weeping" going on.

Thank you Fester for derailing my topic with useless babble.
Last edited by troglodyte on Tue Feb 12, 2013 8:17 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: StillDragon Risers/Bubblecaps

Postby FullySilenced » Mon Feb 11, 2013 4:26 am

When SD bubble cap and riser design and mods were discussed a couple months ago and the hole sizes enlarged...

it was my understanding that the area or the holes was equal to the area of the risers.... If this is true, there would be little or no benefit with increased hole sizing or slotting in the riser.

I do not have a SD riser in my possession to verify this... Might give rise to additional thoughts...
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Re: StillDragon Risers/Bubblecaps

Postby acfixer69 » Tue Feb 12, 2013 12:39 pm

I have and am going to use SD bubblecaps on my next column. I got the bubblecaps from Larry a while back and have 3mm holes. I will be tweaking them soon. Not sure how yet but tomorrow I will make a choice.
This is a thread that should be watched by all bubble cap plate builders. If you ask about pressure in the column as a newbe in here and other forumns they say there is none which is true BUT that non pressure is the push that moves the stuff we want for sippin. I'm with Fester on this one, he is at the front line. We may want a deeper plate level the downcomer should determine this and not the riser. The pressure on the lower plate will hold the liquid up and the downcomer will do the job it was designed to do. This pressure below the plate is what is keeping my valved plate from working. Those that know me.
This is another reason/answer for the question.... do I really need a sight glass to run a plate column. Yes you do.

AC
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Re: StillDragon Risers/Bubblecaps

Postby Hawk » Tue Feb 12, 2013 1:12 pm

I honestly can't find an issue with the way the bubble caps come in their stock form. No issue with vapor movement or weaping. Clearly I may be either confused as to what is being discussed, or my lady dragon is doing exactly what she was intended to do. I'm leaning to the latter. I personally wouldn't alter my risers if Jesus himself told me I could make a better product than I already am.
"You only have power over people so long as you don't take everything from them. Once you've robbed them of everything, they're no longer in your power. They're free again."

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Re: StillDragon Risers/Bubblecaps

Postby Hawk » Tue Feb 12, 2013 1:54 pm

minime wrote:
HawkingRage wrote:I honestly can't find an issue with the way the bubble caps come in their stock form. No issue with vapor movement or weaping. Clearly I may be either confused as to what is being discussed, or my lady dragon is doing exactly what she was intended to do. I'm leaning to the latter. I personally wouldn't alter my risers if Jesus himself told me I could make a better product than I already am.


They work exactly as intended if you input appropriate power but for guys like me wanting to 'overdrive' them the pressure buildup under the plate causes the plate to flood. For the record I also run a deeper tray bath.
A plate that is not drained to the downcomer height is flooded. Drilling the risers to 4mm allowed me to push 4.5kw without flooding. I don't run that much power but I was proving to myself that drilling the risers made a difference.
Used as designed they work perfectly.


Even though I have a 4500 watt element the most that I push through it after my math and my controler is 4350w. I tried to flood my plates. I got the top one flooded but the Big Baby just couldnt handle the truth. So I usually only send 3600W to stack and run at about 2500W. Thanks minime, you made sense of the obsticle. Just one question. Does the boiler charge make a difference? and if you are throwing enough power to flood all the plates, wouldnt you want to power down a bit anyhow at least to save energy? I can understand wanting to run faster but from what I have learned, you loose quality the faster you run. Less you are running more plates I guess.

Learning every day.
"You only have power over people so long as you don't take everything from them. Once you've robbed them of everything, they're no longer in your power. They're free again."

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Re: StillDragon Risers/Bubblecaps

Postby troglodyte » Tue Feb 12, 2013 8:33 pm

HawkingRage wrote: I can understand wanting to run faster but from what I have learned, you loose quality the faster you run. Less you are running more plates I guess.
Learning every day.


Or make your plates/bubble caps more efficient, run less plates, more heat, more efficient, better flavor 8-) get experimenting!
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Re: StillDragon Risers/Bubblecaps

Postby tickle » Wed Feb 13, 2013 2:07 pm

law-of-ohms wrote:here are some simulation vids

moddified riser

http://youtu.be/M_FCwu-43UQ


vids gone! :(
love vids :handgestures-thumbupright:
life is good
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