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Dash gin basket development

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Re: Dash gin basket development

Postby the Doctor » Sat Aug 25, 2012 6:41 pm

Thought you might like this idea Fester I bought these on ebay for $6 each...I have ordered some bits from Punkin to test the idea I'm placing it after the 180 degree bend above the shotgun ..
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Re: Dash gin basket development

Postby the Doctor » Sat Aug 25, 2012 7:57 pm

The second drawing with the ball in line is more what I was thinking of...simple and cheap...but I cant see the down side the proof will be in the pudding as soon as I get the extra parts I'll do a run...I put a TPW on today to get ready for a trial run.
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Re: Dash gin basket development

Postby Maheel » Sun Aug 26, 2012 10:18 am

Hey Doc great idea !!

just make sure they are all stainless i had some of those tea balls rust up and fall apart real fast.... (dry hopping balls for beer kegs)

but i reckon you know your stuff and more a post for others as well :)
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Re: Dash gin basket development

Postby stubbydrainer » Sun Aug 26, 2012 1:31 pm

when I was building my bubbler I had plans to build it with a " cassette" style of botanicals cage ( a removable/replacable section between tri-clamps ) above the dephlemator
but it ended up to be one of those " i'll do that later " jobs :?
I tend to lean toward the Carter head, but that is just me ( I like thumpers :roll: ) and the " organic particles " shouldn't become an issue
I feel like going and having a play in the drop n drag bit in the SD site ......Hmmm c'yas 8-)
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Re: Dash gin basket development

Postby stubbydrainer » Sun Aug 26, 2012 2:44 pm

I come up with this
I had to super-impose 4" dephlem. as a thumper body ( so OD. is wrong ) , you can see internal tube to btm of thumper , but you get the idea
as the thumper fills, it can be drained back to the column, the basket is mounted inside, ( not seen , but thats easy that bit :lol: )
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Just a thought
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Re: Dash gin basket development

Postby stubbydrainer » Sun Aug 26, 2012 7:34 pm

Fester
I was thinking of mounting the basket in the "joint, at the top, just like your bubble plates are mounted
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Re: Dash gin basket development

Postby the Doctor » Sun Aug 26, 2012 9:43 pm

OK I can see that Stubs...could work very well...I especially like the reflux potential back to the column...reintroduces the vapour to the basket multiple times...
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Re: Dash gin basket development

Postby stubbydrainer » Sun Aug 26, 2012 9:54 pm

I call it " kicking a stone around a carpark " Doc :lol:
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Re: Dash gin basket development

Postby the Doctor » Sun Aug 26, 2012 10:59 pm

Im with ya Stub's
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Re: Dash gin basket development

Postby the Doctor » Sun Aug 26, 2012 11:41 pm

I am really looking forward to seeing where this goes...Stub's is a smart cookie Fester...I think this has potential.
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Re: Dash gin basket development

Postby the Doctor » Fri Aug 31, 2012 12:38 pm

No good with Flash but can Photoshop if that is of use?
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Re: Dash gin basket development

Postby stubbydrainer » Fri Aug 31, 2012 8:05 pm

bugger you Fester :twisted:
you have got me thinking of attacking my bubbler with a hacksaw to allow the fit-up of one of these things , vapour infused gin is where I want to go with the gin produced here, but ATM I am very happy with the product I get from maceration .
I will have to make a copper version though to keep with the " style " and materials mine is made from ;)
but I Have to ask permission from you to build it :roll:
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Re: Dash gin basket development

Postby Maheel » Fri Aug 31, 2012 8:09 pm

stubbydrainer wrote:bugger you Fester :twisted:
you have got me thinking of attacking my bubbler with a hacksaw to allow the fit-up of one of these things ,


what about a 3" tri-clover / easy flange on the top of your plate still and a "drop in" basket then a 3" blank to seal it back up?

i am already rethinking the top of my design now....
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Re: Dash gin basket development

Postby stubbydrainer » Fri Aug 31, 2012 8:19 pm

that is how I originally was going to make mine Maheel,
but I just love the thumper concept here, it allows for the condensate to stay out of the boiler
I just don't know which way to fly .....the jury is out on this ATM
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Re: Dash gin basket development

Postby the Doctor » Fri Aug 31, 2012 9:58 pm

+1 for the thumper...the whole idea of separating the oils from reaching the boil just makes sense...which is why on my simple basket design, i put the basket after the 180 bend so no reflux taking the oils back to the boiler .
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Re: Dash gin basket development

Postby the Doctor » Sat Sep 01, 2012 4:13 am

Fester..I think there will be demand for a Carter - Head /Thumper if you build one...I like the idea and know that there is interest in gin...but also for more subtle vodka infusions and to just ad aromatics to vodkas ...it has got to be a winner...I am still struggling to get my head around the Carter - head after I get through this opening weekend I want to get a chance to do some research... and catch up with this idea.
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Re: Dash gin basket development

Postby stubbydrainer » Sat Sep 01, 2012 10:30 am

Maheel wrote:
stubbydrainer wrote:bugger you Fester :twisted:
you have got me thinking of attacking my bubbler with a hacksaw to allow the fit-up of one of these things ,


what about a 3" tri-clover / easy flange on the top of your plate still and a "drop in" basket then a 3" blank to seal it back up?

i am already rethinking the top of my design now....


I have been thinking a bit about where you are going with your build Maheel, here's a thought that popped into my head , in regard to fusel oils and tannins entering back into the column and polluting the wash, put some slanted plates ( boka style ) in the top under the basket , bleed the condensate off the same as a boka , thru a vapourlock

Image

Cheers
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Re: Dash gin basket development

Postby Al Q » Sat Sep 01, 2012 11:49 am

Maybe a daft question, but its late here and gin o'clock was long ago :D I'm guessing the idea of using a gin basket with a column or plated still is to produce gin from wash in a single run?

If that is the aim here, then you are bang on with where you want to put the basket, having it anywhere where reflux could be returning through the basket is a bad idea, not due to dilution, but if using dried botanicals you risk them gumming up if they have been finely ground and risk causing an obstruction that could pressurise the still.
Now from my experience I find there are a lot of complementary flavours coming over at the start of the run that you wouldn't want to loose in discarding the heads (which is why I choose to charge with cut neutral when doing gin, and run a simple pot still config), you may be able to compensate by increasing the amount of botanicals in the recipe so this carries over past the first 10% or so that would be discarded as heads, or possibly make the gin basket easy to inset mid run after removing the heads.

My problem with the first option of changing the recipe is you still have some very ginny heads, I doubt these would be easily neutralised, and reusing them would skew the flavour next time, this is maybe okay if you are commercial, and do the same recipe time after time, but possibly not that great for the hobbyist.
However if we are not talking about doing gin straight from wash, then I appologies, as I've missed the point completely. :oops:
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Re: Dash gin basket development

Postby stubbydrainer » Sat Sep 01, 2012 1:22 pm

some good stuff in there just the same Al-q ( for a missed point , that is :lol: :lol: )

so far I have been making my gin by maceration and delving into Vapour infusion is a whole new galaxy to me :?

I have been in the workshop ( tidying up ;) ) and tinkering around with with thing and it has raised a few questions in my mind :geek:
going on what Fester had put measurement to ( albeit , a basic stab in the dark ) the botanicals basket is 150mm long x 100 dia. at the top x 75-80mm at the bottom

How full would you fill that with organic matter ?
what would be the projected quantity of gin you would expect from a run ?
how many litres of 40% abv neutral wash would you charge the boiler with to get a good gin ,
or am I just over thinking this , and should I just adopt the policy of " just build it and see " .... :idea: I might just build it , send it to Doc , and let him work it out :D
then get it back..... with instructions :lol: :lol:

Cheers
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Re: Dash gin basket development

Postby Spud1700 » Sat Sep 01, 2012 1:54 pm

stubbydrainer wrote:or am I just over thinking this , and should I just adopt the policy of " just build it and see " .... :idea: I might just build it , send it to Doc , and let him work it out :D
then get it back..... with instructions :lol: :lol:

Cheers


I am a big believer in just build it and see :)
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Re: Dash gin basket development

Postby stubbydrainer » Sat Sep 01, 2012 5:04 pm

well,
in the process of tidying up the work shop and building a keg boiler , I managed to get side tracked and have started the build of this thing ( out of copper ) and I am using Fester's measurements as a guide , I am putting a 2" window in it ( cos I have a spare one the same as on my bubbler ) for liquid height monitoring etc.
I have made the deiscision of build a new 3" pot still with the "gin thumper" removable ( this modular stuff is rubbing off on me :? )
I will put up a build thread when there is more to show ;)

cheers
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Re: Dash gin basket development

Postby stubbydrainer » Sat Sep 01, 2012 8:52 pm

one thing that is niggling me is splashing ....onto the botanicals , and I keep thinking that this should be a dry chamber ( so to speak )
any Idea's on that ?
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Re: Dash gin basket development

Postby Al Q » Sat Sep 01, 2012 10:07 pm

Ah, the mist has cleared, drinking gin does not help the thinking about the gin making process. I had not considered you would be running the Dash in pot mode with no reflux.
I always seem to get my best results with vapour infusion when charging the still with cut spirit just below 30%, so that the output proof is lower and you are adding much less water to get it down to bottling strength, so what you are suggesting sounds right to me.

I do it very simply
Gin basket
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Re: Dash gin basket development

Postby Al Q » Mon Sep 03, 2012 12:32 am

Fester wrote:Please tell me about the cuts.
I assume that each jar has a different flavor profile as some of the botanicals get depleted quickly while others perhaps 'open up' during the run?


Exactly right Fes, You get the oily citrus and juniper at the start of the run, and the woody spices at the low ABV end like cinnamon and liquorish. Every jar is slightly different, if you wanted to show someone how a pot still worked then doing a gin run with them would make the process very clear to them.
As for the cuts, I charge the still with good neutral spirit so everything has the potential to make it into the final drink, in reality I make a small heads cut, and then cut again down round about 25%

This is totally dependent on the recipe you are using, you may push the ABV lower if you like a some of the flavours down there, it can get a bit floral though. As for the heads cut it is very small, If I'm targeting to have 5 litres of drinking spirit (46%), then I cut less than 150-200ml from the start of the run. To me this first portion is very piney and would overpower the finished drink, the portion right after this will give you the juniper backbone of the drink, so that's why I don't use wash in the still as this would be lost to the heads.

Another thing I use in my gins are fixatives - these are used to set the flavours and aroma, this is common to both gin and perfumery. I use either angelica root, or orris root. Gin has a tendency to get very floral and lose the citrus and juniper notes if you don't use fixatives, this happens for me about 6 weeks down the line.

The quality of your botanicals will have the biggest impact on the flavour of your gin, if you're a cook you uses spices, you will know that older spices or ones that haven't been stored correctly will not smell or taste the same when you grind them, and wont impart as much flavour.
So following a well worked out recipe posted on line can still be a crap shoot, get to know your botanicals and adjust your recipe accordingly.

There is a good article here about how where the juniper is grown can alter the flavour, and a release of juniper only distillations from different regions http://www.theginblog.co.uk/home/2012/08/origin-gins/
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Re: Dash gin basket development

Postby Al Q » Mon Sep 03, 2012 4:16 am

I've no problem with it being moved before I drag the topic even more off course :lol:

Fester wrote:I'm also needing information about possible matting issues. As the veggies get damp do they tend to plug up the screen on the bottom of the basket? Or is this really not an issue?

It's certainly something to be concerned about, my basket is rough fit, and held together by just 2 rivets. The seam is not sealed and its not a perfect fit in the column so if it did bung up it would maybe hiss a bit, but wouldn't over pressurise the still. I layer the contents in the basket to have the very roughly ground oily juniper at the bottom, then the finer drier items on top mixed in the rest of the juniper, my thinking is there is no way the juniper will cause the screen any concern, but the other items probably could.
My screen is from an old kitchen sieve that somehow got broken just as I was building the basket *al looks shifty* so no idea of the sizing.

Fester wrote:And to pick your brain even more, with a boiler charge of 50 liters of 30% clean neutral, what volume of botanicals would typically be used. As you know, I'm trying to develop a gin basket to attach to the Dash and trying to get the size of the basket right.


The biggest batch I've done as was a 24L, 27% charge (10L @65% + 14L water) I use my little 30L T500 (tea urn style) boiler, my botanicals list almost filled my 6"x 1-3/4" cylinder, it was quite a large botanicals bill, but I also use a lot less juniper than other recipes I've seen on line, so "maybe" comparable to use as a guide. I like using the tea urn for my gin as if I do a macerated one its open top, so can be cleaned out easily, its got an external element so you can run it with a really small charge for test recipes, and it pops right on the counter top in the kitchen.

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Re: Dash gin basket development

Postby FullySilenced » Mon Sep 03, 2012 3:16 pm

Fester I sent you a couple of PM regarding this one just ideas

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Re: Dash gin basket development

Postby stubbydrainer » Mon Sep 03, 2012 3:24 pm

I reckon I will have the can done tonight, which will just leavethe basket insert, will post some pics, if life doesn't get in the way
Starting to think ....recipes already :lol: :lol:
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Re: Dash gin basket development

Postby FullySilenced » Mon Sep 03, 2012 3:30 pm

I will work up a drawing in the morning...

but as i mentioned, i thought of using an end cap with a 2" inlet tube and sanitary fitting. adapting a sliding cap for the tube based on the one Smaug/Larry is using in his thumper. Spring load the cap to keep it in place. all this using a std 4x4x3 bubble tee with no mods use the 3" for a sight glass and there should be plenty of room over the sliding cap for a basket to hang in the top of the tee just under a short 4x2 adapter as an outlet. Small drain in the bottom cap beside the inlet to clear the tee after a run.

This is a combination of several of the ideas that have been forwarded just adapted to an end cap and working with your std. parts list.

FS

What should the liquid level be in the thumper? 1" 2" 3" need some direction here... And how would you maintain that level without putting some of the vapor or liquid back in the main tower.
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Re: Dash gin basket development

Postby FullySilenced » Tue Sep 04, 2012 7:02 am

Thank you Larry,

Thats the concept that i described in my post... about using the end cap... but using a tee so as someone wanted a viewing port... however us could use a 6" or even a 20" long ss triclamp pipe if you wanted more botanicals .. with the new 6" or 8" diameter pieces that are in transit you could upsize this to commercial potential..

If using the larger diameter, adding a drain would not be a sizing issue only an issue of location on the end cap or modded reducer cap.

I am a thinking the basket should hang from the top very edge of the sanitary connection and should include a lid as to not allow material to be forced upstream.

Still doing my stinkin thinkin on it :roll:

FS

Thank you for the video...
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Re: Dash gin basket development

Postby FullySilenced » Wed Sep 05, 2012 1:07 am

Fester, Thank you for the kind words sir, were you able to see Smaug's little video?

Will work you up a drawing for some clarity.

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Re: Dash gin basket development

Postby granddad » Wed Sep 05, 2012 5:16 am

granddad here i posted a few pics . i am a novice useing larrys thumper idea w a botanical screen. in useing corn or sweet feed as a botanical it has improved on flavor & smoothed out the sharpness. i do have plans to use other botanicals in the future . but untill then Post subject: botanical thumper infusionPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2012 7:28 am



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Posts: 1 granddad here i have ben monitering the site & i am happy to see thumpers so here is a link to my botanical thumper infusion http://imgur.com/a/mYBQU you will have to cut & paste & her is a 2nd one http://2ndthumper.imgur.com

this is a lwtcs style thumper inline with a botanical screen i have used it with & without the screen but when i take my spent grains from my mash & lay on the botanical sreen my product is smoother & not as sharp @ 120 proof at least on the stripping run & on the spirit run i mix frozen sweet corn& my mash 50/50 it realy taste good so iam intrested if any body else has tried this please commet thanks granddad
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Re: Dash gin basket development

Postby FullySilenced » Wed Sep 05, 2012 12:02 pm

Will post a drawing when i get it finished its almost done..

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Re: Dash gin basket development

Postby stubbydrainer » Wed Sep 05, 2012 8:39 pm

hi guys
just thought I would put up these pics of the gin thumpa so far , just the basket window,n bottom to go ( mrs is mad at me atm. so no time on building :oops: :? :lol:

here is the internal
Image

the top
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the can
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Re: Dash gin basket development

Postby Maheel » Wed Sep 12, 2012 6:51 pm

question....

why dont you want the "vegies" over the boiler where oils could drop back into the wash

or can someone link we to the "why" thread somewhere
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Re: Dash gin basket development

Postby stubbydrainer » Wed Sep 12, 2012 7:48 pm

Fester wrote:And other benefits I haven't thought of yet.


:lol:
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Re: Dash gin basket development

Postby FullySilenced » Wed Sep 12, 2012 8:33 pm

Fester the salesman....


Fester wrote:
"And other benefits I haven't thought of yet"
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Re: Dash gin basket development

Postby Al Q » Thu Sep 13, 2012 3:52 am

Fester wrote:The benefits I see are:
the extraction of the botanicals without adding any of the oils and flavors to your boiler and column.......


That is the best reason for this. I use an open top boiler so I can get in an clean it, I personally wouldn't do gin using my column or with my keg that I cannot get into. When I'm done making a gin the previously neutral still charge smells quite ginny, and mostly of the woody botanicals that come over at the lower ABV. I can give my boiler a good scrub out afterwards, and give the pot head and condenser good blast in the shower.

You certainly could clean your keg out afterwards, but if you can avoid it then why not. I like that set up, only the product condenser would need flushed out at the end of the run.
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Re: Dash gin basket development

Postby stubbydrainer » Sun Sep 16, 2012 11:35 am

I got in and made the basket this morning and finished the/ proto type
Image

stainless mesh in the bottom
Image

finished ready for cleaning run
Image

mounted on pot still
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Re: Dash gin basket development

Postby FullySilenced » Sun Sep 16, 2012 11:42 am

Absolutely Beautiful.... true craftsmanship always puts me in awe....

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Re: Dash gin basket development

Postby the Doctor » Sun Sep 16, 2012 12:21 pm

Stubs that is just beautiful..I really dip my hat to you Sir....so impressed
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Re: Dash gin basket development

Postby stubbydrainer » Tue Sep 18, 2012 6:44 am

Coop
It's a cup with a mesh bottom in it, it sits inside , take the top off and "plonk " it in .
If you scroll up , there are diagrams showing how they go together :D
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Re: Dash gin basket development

Postby FullySilenced » Thu Sep 20, 2012 11:54 pm

Fester
Not sure if i have ever read of anyone making gin using individually distilled componets... u may be on to something new but mix and match away.. glad your happy with it so far.. regardless its a great looking and its shiney... i like shiney
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Re: Dash gin basket development

Postby YHB » Fri Sep 21, 2012 1:28 am

CHERRIES

I have had cherry vodka that was superb, but never found a method / recipe that came anywhere near, perhaps this is how they made it?

Are cherries still in season out there?

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Re: Dash gin basket development

Postby Al Q » Fri Sep 21, 2012 4:37 am

FullySilenced wrote:Fester
Not sure if i have ever read of anyone making gin using individually distilled componets... u may be on to something new but mix and match away.. glad your happy with it so far.. regardless its a great looking and its shiney... i like shiney


One or two premium brands to it this way, sacred gin being one, they actually use vacuum distillation so not to boil the botanicals. I've also seen a kit where you can buy the individual components to mix your own, sets you back £70 sterling (I think I could do it cheaper ;) ) but it is aimed at a very niche gin geek market.


Fester wrote:Now a question for Al Q, do I add a few drops of Angelica fixative to the other essences?


Don't know what to advise there Fes, never done any individual distillations with the exception of lime. To my tastes the lime became less sweet and more sour the older it got. As you'll probably be blending to taste its probably not as big an issue as having a taste you like in bulk, and wanting to fix it - I suppose?
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Re: Dash gin basket development

Postby stubbydrainer » Fri Sep 21, 2012 2:18 pm

Fester wrote:Sipping on orange vodka late last night I saw this could be simplified:

g_head simple.JPG


The column does not need to be so tall and a parrot is not needed.



I was wondering how long it would be until you came around to my way of thinking ;)

I am so pleased it works as good as it does , and that your happy with the design
I get excited when I dilute my spirits to 40% ABV...... It means I get more to drink more often
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Re: Dash gin basket development

Postby stubbydrainer » Fri Sep 21, 2012 10:43 pm

not having run/tested mine yet, I take what you said on board Llyod, may be cut the down turned pipe off at an angle,leaving an "awning" so as the " essences " don't enter in to the inlet and find there way back to boiler
after all proto types are a R&D tool
I get excited when I dilute my spirits to 40% ABV...... It means I get more to drink more often
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Re: Dash gin basket development

Postby YHB » Sat Sep 22, 2012 12:02 am

Fester wrote:Stopped to buy gin today so I'd have a baseline to know what gin is supposed to taste like...........................................any thoughts on this? Simpler is better and cheaper.


See if you can talk your bestest friend Al Q to have a sample of his gin hand carried to China - Then you will know what Gin is really suppose to taste like.

This modern set up is competing against a sock filled with orange peel suspended in the boiler above the liquid. Perhaps that would be a baseline, it does not come any simpler or cheaper.

Brian
Why buy something you don't want,
When you can make something you do.
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Re: Dash gin basket development

Postby YHB » Sat Sep 22, 2012 12:44 am

OOPS

Sorry not implying that Al Q made his gin this way, he does not.

Trying to make two seperate, non related, unique statements but screwed up.

1) Al Q makes beautiful GIN and for 40 years I thought I did not like gin.

2) Trying to identify the cheapest simplest method possible

Brian
Why buy something you don't want,
When you can make something you do.
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Re: Dash gin basket development

Postby stubbydrainer » Sat Sep 22, 2012 7:26 am

Fester wrote:Yeah, but your's is soldered in, I can just unclamp mine. :lol:


Now ya just showing off :lol:
I get excited when I dilute my spirits to 40% ABV...... It means I get more to drink more often
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Re: Dash gin basket development

Postby stubbydrainer » Sat Sep 22, 2012 7:30 am

Fester wrote:I'm sure Al's feet smell as sweet and fresh as juniper berries.


Maybe Al Q doesn't was his socks after the run :lol: :lol:
I get excited when I dilute my spirits to 40% ABV...... It means I get more to drink more often
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