the modern distiller

Interesting news from Poland ...

Interesting news from Poland ...

Postby Odin » Tue Apr 09, 2013 7:20 am

"Great art is created only through diligent and painstaking effort to perfect and polish oneself." by Buddhist filosofer Daisaku Ikeda.
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Re: Interesting news from Poland ...

Postby Stinger » Tue Apr 09, 2013 10:04 am

Very impressive - plug in & play.
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Re: Interesting news from Poland ...

Postby Stinger » Tue Apr 09, 2013 10:08 am

Here's a link or anyone with $3000USD burning a hole in their pocket:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/230950663739
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Re: Interesting news from Poland ...

Postby Bushman » Tue Apr 09, 2013 10:43 am

Takes all the fun out of it! Swede does it give you any ideas on your controllers?
I started my liquid diet and so far it seems to be working! I've already lost two days.

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Re: Interesting news from Poland ...

Postby Jimbo » Tue Apr 09, 2013 11:06 am

Odin wrote:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HLpT-SflIIg&feature=youtu.be


Fully automatic (no nose or tastebuds) + Pure Sugar + Turbo Yeast = :obscene-moneypiss: :obscene-hanged: :obscene-drinkingchug: :sad-roulette: :teasing-knob: :text-nocomment: :techie-error: :techie-error: :puke-front: :angry-cussing: :angry-banghead: :confusion-helpsos: :eusa-violin: :obscene-buttsway:

There, that outta about sum it up :lol:
People make wort, yeast make beer.
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Re: Interesting news from Poland ...

Postby BadAssBass » Tue Apr 09, 2013 11:17 am

:lol:
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Re: Interesting news from Poland ...

Postby jake_leg » Tue Apr 09, 2013 4:18 pm

Any idea how it works? I can't see how reflux is controlled or returned, and I don't know what the purpose of the offset box at the top is. I would guess it's LM-E-ARC.
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Re: Interesting news from Poland ...

Postby Stinger » Tue Apr 09, 2013 6:29 pm

This is NOT a still that I would consider buying BUT I’m very interested in anything new or different and its operation. Thank you for posting it Odin.

Unless I’m mistaken, dismissing or ridiculing a design out-of-hand with little or no knowledge of how it works seems to run contrary to the lofty goals of this forum – as set by the good Doctor. It is NOT something I expected to see on this forum.

Here’s another reference (eBay ad. Translation from Polish) for those with open minds, who are prepared to step outside their comfort zone, don’t want to be thought to be a Luddite, and who remain “INTERESTED” in this design:
http://translate.googleusercontent.com/ ... wmtlVrK5LQ
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Re: Interesting news from Poland ...

Postby rossco » Tue Apr 09, 2013 8:13 pm

Thanks for sharing Odin.
Not over fussed with the plastic bits with high ABV.
Had a hydrometer cylinder melt earlier this year...

Lots of technology widgets to go bung. :grin:
Murphy's Law says if i can go bung, it will.
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Re: Interesting news from Poland ...

Postby Stinger » Tue Apr 09, 2013 8:28 pm

.
Here are assembly instructions for the "STANDARD AUTOMATIC DE170 moonshine distiller COLUMN" which may help clarify the purpose of each part:

http://destylaty.pl/DE170_A_ST_INSTRUKC ... IA_ENG.pdf

Also, as far as use of "PLASTICS" - Materials used:

As you can see in the accompanying column material is refined to the last detail from the heating system, for example by welding quality of the water connection.
The column is 100% complete for immediate employment with a guaranteed minimum of 96% results from the first run.
The entire column (all parts in contact with the distillate) is made ​​of stainless steel AISI 304 according to the standard and 316 (pipe - AISI 304 - EN 1.4301 - PN 0H18N9, couplings and fittings AISI 316 - EN 1.4401 - PN H17N13M2T). The fittings are used in the column to the factory Teflon seals 350 degrees, all the hoses are made ​​of pure silicon. TIG welded Active argon.
All the elements, even the distribution of water, or for example, bolts and washers, solenoid valves, ball valves, etc. are made ​​of STAINLESS STEEL AISI 316 steel grade


The above is clearly stated here:

http://translate.googleusercontent.com/ ... IyJIuorFOg
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Re: Interesting news from Poland ...

Postby Odin » Tue Apr 09, 2013 8:42 pm

What looks like plastic is silicone actually.

I have had some talks with the manufacturer. Using google translate, since he is Polish and does not really speak English. But here is the extra information.

It is a LM tower of 6 cm diameter. With SPP packing. Two elements. 2,000 watts each. Two for heating up, one for actually running.

The "off set" is the needle valve and its automatic control (open, close with steps of 0,02 millimeter). Computer operated.

The column and kettle are laden with sensors. One sensor measures pressure in the column. Not like "Shit!?! Overpressure!!!", but pressure. People situated at higher or lower (like me) places have varieing pressure conditions. And slight pressure differences can be found in the column as well.

The automation continuously adapts for that, since pressure influences boiling temperatures. So based on the best calculated temperature, the computer decides to draw off at - as an example - 77.9 degrees C. And it regulates that number a few times per second.

Now it starts. Heat up. After heat up equilibrium is found. You can set the computer. Do you want to stabilise for 15 minutes? For 20, for 30? You name it, it does it.

After stabalisation, it will start to draw of heads/fores. As long as temperature is below the azeotropic boiling point calculated (yes, with pressure in mind), it draws of. When ethanol azeotropic temp is reached, it shifts to hearts. You can decide to collect as is, or switch to filter mode. The automation will continuously adapt the boiling point. And - being an LM - the needle valve will close further and further, thus slowly slacking down collection rates. But temps will always be within 0.3 degrees of the calculated ethanol azeo boiling point. You can set it to stop at for instance boiler temp. 96 or 97 or 98.5 degrees C. Collection rate will slowly fall, since ethanol is depleted, but is stays within the aforementioned range.

You then decide if you want to collect tails. Seperately again, without filter.

You can take out half the packing and run it potstill mode. A one distillation run whiskey is also possible. It does not only "take" turbo's. You can put in anything you want. sugarhead neutral, UJ, AG, you name it. Due to the automation, it will take a 5% wash to 96% just as easily as a 15% wash or 22% wash (? that's a freaking lot!). Just that output will slow.

As a potstill, for sure it is a compromise. But as a fractionating still ... I am impressed!

Units sold so far? Over 400 in Poland alone. The manufacturer is now starting to look abroad. Prices, delivery included, througout Europe: EURO 2,000. The big brother has a 11,4 cm diameter column, a 280 liters boiler and 3 x 6 kw heating elements. Sells for EURO 3,300 delivery excluded.

I am currently asking some contacts in Poland to verify reputation.

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Re: Interesting news from Poland ...

Postby Stinger » Tue Apr 09, 2013 9:28 pm

:text-goodpost: Keep us posted Odin.
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Re: Interesting news from Poland ...

Postby Odin » Tue Apr 09, 2013 10:51 pm

I am actually thinking of buying one ... :confusion-confused:

Okay, first that pay increase!

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Re: Interesting news from Poland ...

Postby Stinger » Tue Apr 09, 2013 11:18 pm

Stinger wrote:This is NOT a still that I would consider buying


I may regret saying that - BUT I''ll wait for some feedback from actual users before I seriously consider buying this. Better start working on SWMBO now. - just in case.

:text-feedback: Odin :?:

I'll be watching this space.
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Re: Interesting news from Poland ...

Postby timmyjane » Tue Apr 09, 2013 11:34 pm

Jake Leg

Didn't you build a computer something for your still? Could you make it more advanced like this one?
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Re: Interesting news from Poland ...

Postby Odin » Wed Apr 10, 2013 1:37 am

SWMBO? What is that? My English ain't perfect yet! But working on it, working on it ...

Yes, finding out how users think of it, what's the guys reputation, that would be the logical next step.

We should not look down upon people from other forums. Or on what they are building. SPP for instance is something that came from Eastern-Europe ...

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Re: Interesting news from Poland ...

Postby Jimbo » Wed Apr 10, 2013 1:47 am

Stinger wrote:Unless I’m mistaken, dismissing or ridiculing a design out-of-hand with little or no knowledge of how it works seems to run contrary to the lofty goals of this forum – as set by the good Doctor. It is NOT something I expected to see on this forum.


I guess that was directed at me after my sarcastic ass reply :angry-tappingfoot: :teasing-tease: No offense was intended Stinger, just poking some good natured fun, more at the sack of sugar and Turbo 23 yeast in his advert that at the still itself. For sure the still is a Ferrari, and with the right driver behind the wheel a formidable machine. Gotta admit it does intrigue the engineer in me.... but... alas... Im a potstiller, so Ill just piss off back to potstill land where I belong :grin: Appologies if my post insulted anyone. Cheers friends.
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Re: Interesting news from Poland ...

Postby Stinger » Wed Apr 10, 2013 2:07 am

SWMBO = She Who Must Be Obeyed = wife/significant other/partner. (HWMBO for husband/significant other/partner) :?:

The Eastern Europeans and Russians certainly know their vodka/neutral. This looks like it might be excellent for producing clean neutral from one of the proven recipes with 10-14%abv. - Maybe without carbon filtering.

Not long ago some were doubting the effectiveness of plated bubblers, thumper/bubblers and bubble plate(s) under under a packed column. Live and learn - A closed mind is a major handicap.
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Re: Interesting news from Poland ...

Postby sweden » Wed Apr 10, 2013 2:17 am

Hi Nead to ask you ODIN are you the sales person for this machine ? I notis you not have one off this your self?

And I realy not get this with activ carbon filter thats inthis machine , becuse activ carbon claeans at 40-45 % , not 96% so whats the ponit to even have this carbon filiter?

The only thing who is vry intressting is the needelvalv you can adjust with data 0,02 mm thats intressting for me ;-)
Did yu bild this your self or?
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Re: Interesting news from Poland ...

Postby sweden » Wed Apr 10, 2013 2:18 am

hallo
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Re: Interesting news from Poland ...

Postby sweden » Wed Apr 10, 2013 2:20 am

I cant belive you get out pure stuff from ths machine with aktiv carbon filter becuse carbom are aktiv at 40-45% and shuld be in smal tubes
Corekt me if am wrong pls
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Re: Interesting news from Poland ...

Postby Bushman » Wed Apr 10, 2013 2:35 am

I am still waiting for Swede's comment but I have to admit Odin if you buy one I would value your thoughts as I trust your judgement. Do they also make a commercial size (if I missed the answer in reading sorry)?
I started my liquid diet and so far it seems to be working! I've already lost two days.

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Re: Interesting news from Poland ...

Postby Odin » Wed Apr 10, 2013 2:37 am

Yes, 280 liters to start with, but also au bain marie and continous / follow up batch systems are possible. Preheat one boiler, while the other is distilling. Finished with number one?, drain and refill ...

If I do buy one, I for sure will let you guys know how it turns out!

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Re: Interesting news from Poland ...

Postby Stinger » Wed Apr 10, 2013 2:46 am

Jimbo wrote:No offense was intended Stinger, just poking some good natured fun, more at the sack of sugar and Turbo 23 yeast in his advert that at the still itself.

We're cool. :romance-kisslips: :obscene-drinkingcheers:

AND I certainly agree with you about the 23% turbo. I did one ONCE just to see what all the fuss is about. The stench of the wash was god-awful, as was the cost of the yeast, liquid carbon, clearing chemicals etc. Cleanup of taste was only moderately effective. I'd much rather run 2 proven washes (AllBran, TPW, wheat germ, Wineo's Plain Ol' Sugar, etc.) at 10-12% for the same product volume. And 16% is easily attainable with EC-1118 or similar.

If this still can maintain azeotrope throughout the run AND even clean up that Turbo23 shit it might be well-worth getting. - Could by-pass the carbon filtration on a good, proven wash too.

I shall be watching this space.
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Re: Interesting news from Poland ...

Postby Stinger » Wed Apr 10, 2013 2:50 am

Fester wrote:
Stinger wrote:...HWMBO for husband/significant other/partner...

That's not Poland, Stinger, that's from another planet. :lol:

Fester, I was thinking of all the women distillers we have here. :lol: :lol:

Distillesses :?: :lol:
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Re: Interesting news from Poland ...

Postby jake_leg » Wed Apr 10, 2013 2:58 am

@TJ I have never built anything like this. It has given me a couple of ideas though.

It sounds like it is made to high specs, and the pressure sensors are pretty nifty. Probably there is a PID algorithm in software and the automatic needle valve might allow finer temperature control than a solenoid valve.

The question is whether that is sufficient to avoid heads completely. Riku abandoned this kind of design at a fairly early stage. Ideally you would have a second take off for product a little way down from the top of the column, and keep the valve at the top just for heads.
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Re: Interesting news from Poland ...

Postby Odin » Wed Apr 10, 2013 3:26 am

@Sweden, sorry, missed your Q's the first time. No, I am not the sales person. Yet. I am tempted to drive up there, inspect everything, and if it is fine and performs as it should ... I think I will be. I already told the manufacturer so, and he told me he would send me a proposition to night. If that's solid, if the inspection is solid, if aftersales can be arranged as I want it ... who knows. So, no, I didn't build it myself.

Yes, carbon filtering at 95% is a bit high, yes. But with a good recipe who needs carbon filtering?

Just stay with me guys ... okay, take a look at that filter. Now open her up. Take out the carbon. Put juniper berries in, some koriander, a bit of bitter orange peel ... The filter screen on the bottom of the "carbon filter" is so good & small, you will get over the gin/geneva taste without particle contamination.

No, I don't see a carbon filter, I actually see a herbs & berries basket. Seperate heads & tails extraction ... and only the hearts go over the herbs & berries.

I think I will be back soon with more info. Hopefully with more info from Poland.

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Re: Interesting news from Poland ...

Postby sweden » Wed Apr 10, 2013 3:37 am

Odin Thanks for the answer :smile: but for this carbon you can take this away its no use realy becuse the aktiv carbon works only when you have smal tube and max 45% alcohol

But its realy nice machine , just this data board cotroll unit cost alot , so you guys who think this is a expansiv machine then you most think again , becuse just this controlls are expensiv
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Re: Interesting news from Poland ...

Postby Odin » Wed Apr 10, 2013 3:40 am

So is this machine comparable to the E-ARC? I have tried to understand that design, but didn't get it. The E-ARC that is. I remember seeing a still looking like Pipi Longstrumpf on drugs. Probably the air cooling that threw me off?

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Re: Interesting news from Poland ...

Postby sweden » Wed Apr 10, 2013 3:44 am

If you stil nead carbon to make this alkohol clean then its not beter then a e- arc, but I cant realy say its bad or not becuse I never taste this alkohol who comes out fro this machine, maiby its very clean and good , only this people who have this machines knows this. For my self I can only say that with e -arc you get 96% total neutral alkohol direkt out from the machine
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Re: Interesting news from Poland ...

Postby jake_leg » Wed Apr 10, 2013 4:09 am

Odin wrote:So is this machine comparable to the E-ARC? I have tried to understand that design, but didn't get it. The E-ARC that is. I remember seeing a still looking like Pipi Longstrumpf on drugs. Probably the air cooling that threw me off?


The Polish still is LM-E-ARC. Basically, there is an automatic needle valve at the top that draws off just enough product to keep the temperature stable at the top of the column.
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Re: Interesting news from Poland ...

Postby sweden » Wed Apr 10, 2013 4:20 am

The tricky thing with Lm e arc have always been to adjust the out :( but as we see here they have some auto data adjust valv who do this for the machine. So its new tech for sure :smile: But still dont get why he ad some carbon in the end if this is a e arc machine?
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Re: Interesting news from Poland ...

Postby Jimbo » Wed Apr 10, 2013 4:35 am

Stinger wrote:
Jimbo wrote:No offense was intended Stinger, just poking some good natured fun, more at the sack of sugar and Turbo 23 yeast in his advert that at the still itself.

We're cool. :romance-kisslips: :obscene-drinkingcheers:


Hey now, none of that kissing business. If youre feeling amorous I saw a stray goat in another thread here on MD... :animals-sheep: :laughing-rolling:

Odin and I are friends from here and there, I think (hope) he knows I just be bustin his stones.

Stinger wrote: I was thinking of all the women distillers we have here. :lol: :lol:
Distillesses :?: :lol:


We have distillessess?? :shock: :text-bravo:

Fester wrote:They have a very impressive system of stilling married directly to electronics. I see this as the future of our art and obsession.


Na! :teasing-blahyellow: haha, I love my potstill and old fashioned fire. Hell Id stoke that baby with wood if I could figure out how to keep the house from getting all smoke filled and pissing off the Woman. Ok..... pissing off back to potstill land. :lol: Ciao.
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Re: Interesting news from Poland ...

Postby sweden » Wed Apr 10, 2013 4:40 am

Do enyone knows where to get this needel auto valvs this guy have?
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Re: Interesting news from Poland ...

Postby Stinger » Wed Apr 10, 2013 5:49 am

sweden wrote:.....But still dont get why he ad some carbon in the end if this is a e arc machine?

Several Poles and Russians whose postings I've read are obsessive about their vodka and neutral - to the extent that many will NOT include copper in their stills. They say it adds an unwelcome taste.

I'd think that some hint of the Alco 23% nasties are carried over whether on a Riku-type ARC or any other azeotrope-capable still since Alco23 makes other turbos smell and taste excellent by comparison, IMHO. - I could easily taste it at 95+%. Carbon filtering might be the only way to eliminate it.

Like you, I thought carbon filtering was only effective at around 40-45%abv. Or is that where it is MOST effective, with reduced effectiveness as the abv is higher :?: Either way, carbon should be unnecessary with a good recipe and effective automatic cuts.

Hopefully, Odin will be able to give us some answers.
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Re: Interesting news from Poland ...

Postby jake_leg » Wed Apr 10, 2013 6:32 am

sweden wrote:Do enyone knows where to get this needel auto valvs this guy have?


Don't know what part it is. Maybe search for "proportional control needle valve" or "proportional flow control valve".
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Re: Interesting news from Poland ...

Postby Odin » Wed Apr 10, 2013 8:34 am

Yeah, for true neutral, you don't want copper in the vapour path. And those turbo's ... have a bad name in the US of A, but over here there are some that are pretty okay. Not just nitrogene to boost growth, but also stabilizers, nutrients, etc. Gert Strand makes impressive stuff.

Jim & I go a way back. No problems there.

Edit for Punkin posting when I did: thanks, I just might!

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Re: Interesting news from Poland ...

Postby Odin » Wed Apr 10, 2013 6:13 pm

Yeah the big one is for 3,300 Euro's, producing some 10 liters of 95%+ per hour. The smaller unit with 60 liter boiler goes for EURO 2,000.-, shipping included.

Update: I expect to be able to test one soon and I will post my remarks and findings here, if you want that.

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Re: Interesting news from Poland ...

Postby aqua vitae » Wed Apr 10, 2013 6:59 pm

Certainly looking forward to that Odin, also some detailed photos if that is possible :-)
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Re: Interesting news from Poland ...

Postby Odin » Wed Apr 10, 2013 10:08 pm

Another update. Just spoke with the manufacturer some more. He is shipping me a rig as we speak. He wants me to test it, try it, and he is convinced I will like it. I can use it for a few months, trying vodka's, gins, whiskey, etc. If I like it, I pay and keep it. If I don't like it, I will send it back and I will pay for the return costs. Cesary is very confident about his products and that level of confidence translates to a lot of trust: "Just let me know what the address is and I will ship you a automated D170 model right away, so you can test it. I am sure it will convince you in 1 or 2 runs!"

I will let you all know when it comes in and give detailed info from beginning to end. From "how is it packed", to "how is it assembled", and "how does it run".

First run I envision is a 20% turbo without filtering. Let's see what that gives us! If that is not testing it, I dunno.

If you have Q's on the way, let me know, so we can get a really good evaluation.

Edit: just got mailed that the rig will be shipped tomorrow or the day after. I should be in by next Wednessday or Thursday.

Let the fun begin!

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Re: Interesting news from Poland ...

Postby sweden » Wed Apr 10, 2013 10:24 pm

Very nice done by this guy :smile: Pls inform when you do the test with out carbon and tell us about the quality

if its PURE 96 % total clean its a realy good machine for sure
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Re: Interesting news from Poland ...

Postby Bushman » Wed Apr 10, 2013 11:23 pm

That is an unbelievable offer, he must be confident in his product but he also if new needs to get the word out and what better person than you to deliver the message! :grin: Do keep us posted.

PS: which one is he sending you? If the large one are you thinking about a career change in the future?
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Re: Interesting news from Poland ...

Postby timmyjane » Wed Apr 10, 2013 11:26 pm

Hes getting the 60l one.
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Re: Interesting news from Poland ...

Postby Stinger » Thu Apr 11, 2013 12:19 am

Odin, does he need anyone in North America to test one here?

I could be persuaded to take on this task!!!!! :grin:
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Re: Interesting news from Poland ...

Postby Odin » Thu Apr 11, 2013 12:36 am

Ah, Stinger, I wouldn't want your shoulders to bear that heavy weight ...

:grin:

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Re: Interesting news from Poland ...

Postby Stinger » Thu Apr 11, 2013 12:42 am

Oh well, it was worth a try.
I'm sure you're up to the task. :bow-blue:
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Re: Interesting news from Poland ...

Postby Jimbo » Thu Apr 11, 2013 12:50 am

Odin wrote:He is shipping me a rig...


:occasion-birthdaymulticolor: lucky!
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Re: Interesting news from Poland ...

Postby Odin » Thu Apr 11, 2013 6:47 am

I completely agree, Punkin. And I will tell you guys in a bit over a week from now!

Odin.
"Great art is created only through diligent and painstaking effort to perfect and polish oneself." by Buddhist filosofer Daisaku Ikeda.
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Re: Interesting news from Poland ...

Postby jake_leg » Thu Apr 11, 2013 6:59 am

cooler than cool. ice cold.
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Re: Interesting news from Poland ...

Postby FourofSix » Tue Apr 16, 2013 9:48 am

Sub Zero
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