the modern distiller

Interesting news from Poland ...

Re: Interesting news from Poland ...

Postby Al Q » Wed Apr 17, 2013 6:38 am

I've previously seen those rigs on Ebay, and I just love the look of the boilers.
I'm not interested in fully automating, because I know myself, I would be tempted to walk away and do other things, not a good idea when running in the family home.

Odin wrote:If you have Q's on the way, let me know, so we can get a really good evaluation.


Not really a question for putting the rig through its paces, but are those boilers available on their own? Also if he is manufacturing them are they available with other fittings like tri clamp to match my existing gear?
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Re: Interesting news from Poland ...

Postby Odin » Wed Apr 17, 2013 7:02 am

Short answers to all of yer Q's al Q: yes. Just let me know what you want or what you want to know and I will get it for ya.

Adapter to triclamp is no problemo. Just state the size and consider it done. Via pm maybe?

;-)

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Re: Interesting news from Poland ...

Postby the Doctor » Wed Apr 17, 2013 9:28 am

Odin I have seen the future of distilling...this will do to distilling what the Braumeister has done to brewing. I will be watching the development of your automated distillery and who knows may one day have to have one for myself. I wish you and all involved all success.
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Re: Interesting news from Poland ...

Postby Stinger » Wed Apr 17, 2013 2:32 pm

Gotta agree with you about the Braumeister, Doc. - It's done a lot for my AG brewing. Can't recommend it highly enough!

Odin,

I've been looking at all the information I can find on this still and have viewed the videos several times. The more I see, the more I like. Here are some thoughts/questions:

I'd like to know more about what's selectable on the computer control panel.
Silver rum from this - if/how it could be used to give 93-94% abv distillate.
Is water flow/control to the condensers automatically controlled?
Could the carbon filter be rigged-up to allow for reverse flow (i.e. distillate enters at the bottom and rises up through the carbon)?
How effective is the carbon filtration with high abv turbos? [BTW, I was NEVER happy with turbos years ago when I tried them - even when using dextrose, the expensive add-ons AND carbon filtration.]
How neutral/clean is the distillate straight from 10% TPW and/or other neutral sugar washes (8-12%abv) without a stripping run - as compared with other azeotrope-capable stills?
How well-packed were the parcels? How well would they survive an Atlantic crossing?
What plug do they come with? Looks like it has a single Schuko plug - but aren't they only rated for 16A? Or are there 2 plugs - 2000w for running? plus 2000w for warm-up only?
What about future replacement of proprietary parts? - (Electro/solenoid valves, automatic needle valve etc.)
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Re: Interesting news from Poland ...

Postby FullySilenced » Wed Apr 17, 2013 3:07 pm

Damn stinger you are quite nosey :laughing-rolling: .... but i do have to agree they were all good ones.... :-o Odin i do look forward to you receiving the unit and putting it into play... be safe

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Re: Interesting news from Poland ...

Postby the Doctor » Wed Apr 17, 2013 3:12 pm

So far I love what I see, I know that the airstill as limited as it is did advance our hobby and introduced a whole generation of distillers many of whom have found their way into more main stream methods. I feel that this could be the next logical step and if it lives up to expectations be one that many will never grow out of.
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Re: Interesting news from Poland ...

Postby Odin » Wed Apr 17, 2013 6:19 pm

@Stinger, I think your questions are valid and worth researching. So ... I will be back on them!

@Doctor, I think you put the finger on the right spot. At least that's how I felt about it from the day I saw the rig and spoke to the builder.

@all:

Because of that, and since I am very confident in the structural and automated design qualities, I will be marketing and selling these stills (and there is much more to come!)internationally, IF TESTS TURN OUT OKAY. Goal: a plug & play high-end distilling future for whomever so desires. On a hobby and on a micro brewery / micro distillery level.

Now it ain't gonna be marketed as the "Zibobiebrob 10 to the 6th Biberovka Wasistdas", just to fool around with names. And it ain't gonna be marketed thru sleezy eBay or Amazon procedures either. A pro product deserves a pro approach. On how it is presented, on sales & technical support, on waranty (is that the correct word? I mean guaranty), on payment and delivery. Only surprises will be that the expectations are surpased. Delivery will be all in (so you don't have to worry about expedition costs).

The name for the equipment will be iStill. Domains are registered, but websites aren't up yet. Give us a week or two for that.

WWW.iSTILL.EU will be first.

Multilangual. English as the basis, with possibility to switch to Dutch, French, German, Hungarian, Afrikaans. Just to start with. The company iStill will be about high-end distilling equipment. It won't have a brewshop like assortment, but will be more narowly defined: everything for the distiller who wants nothing but the best. For pro's and for amateurs wanting quality, ease & reliability of operation.

Apart from the iStills, a selection of the best yeasts and wood and (natural and artisan distilled) essences will be provided. I am finding great sources every day now. And we need them. Just looking at the Netherlands: it is so difficult to get good resources. Tasty sweet corn? Nope. Aged american white oak? With difficulty. Needle valves? Only to be purchased internationally. And so forth, and so on.

Quality & Acceptance Procedure (just so you know what you can expect of me):
1. Testing the still:
a. Does it do what it says? Make a neutral out of a turbo wash all automated. Now this isn't going to be up the sleeve of most around, but remember how the airstill got us into distilling? Buy the still, buy some yeast packages, make a wine, distill, learn, upgrade from there. Point: allmost nobody starts with an AG. Procedure: turbo wash in, fractionate automatically, using the carbon filter. Testing will be on speed, amounts of cuts, abv, etc. Final test: how do I judge this neutral agains my own neutrals and vodka's?
b. Does the still make good cuts on a non-carbonfiltered turbo wash? As above ...
c. From there more specialized tests on UJ for instance. And on the pot still function and water distillation functionality.
2. Aproval/non-aproval:
If the still is living up to all the expectations, it will go on sale right away.
If the still does not completely live up to expectations, proposed programming changes (stabilization, how/when it makes cuts and why) will be made and retesting takes place.
If the still does not live up to expected standards, it won't be marketed.

Just so the most critical tests are performed, I plan to give you guys full insight in all of my findings. And I expect you to ask and then ask further and deeper. I might even ship some samples to others to check my findings, since taste is a subjective thing.

Okay, I am very excited about all this! You guys just keep me with me feet down on the ground, please.

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Re: Interesting news from Poland ...

Postby the Doctor » Wed Apr 17, 2013 9:28 pm

I am sure that we all wish you the very best in your new endeavour. It is very exciting for you and the craft of distilling.
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Re: Interesting news from Poland ...

Postby Odin » Wed Apr 17, 2013 10:20 pm

Thanks guys!

Very exciting, all this stuff! I already have some demands on SPP and a few people telling me they want to buy the still! Very,very exciting, since the website/shop isn't even up and running yet. Let alone the testing on its way.

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Re: Interesting news from Poland ...

Postby froot » Wed Apr 17, 2013 11:09 pm

I guess shipping to Australia would be a killer though huh?
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Re: Interesting news from Poland ...

Postby Odin » Wed Apr 17, 2013 11:41 pm

Froot,

Thanks for the Q! It may be, but I will dive into that. When I write "worldwide" I mean "worldwide". ;)

Okay guys, just started my Blog. If you want to follow me on my adventures ... tune in.

http://istillblog.wordpress.com/

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Re: Interesting news from Poland ...

Postby Stinger » Thu Apr 18, 2013 1:00 am

FullySilenced wrote:Damn stinger you are quite nosey :laughing-rolling:
FS

I regard that as a complement! :lol:

the Doctor wrote:I know that the airstill as limited as it is did advance our hobby and introduced a whole generation of distillers many of whom have found their way into more main stream methods.
Doc

Yeah Doc, that's where I started. Airstill and turbos. Didn't think much of the "neutral" it produced, but I learned to make some decent rum and sourmash with it when I "happened upon" HD many years ago. I STILL value its use for some processes [pun intended :!: :?: ].

Odin wrote:@Stinger, I think your questions are valid and worth researching. So ... I will be back on them!Odin.

Thanks Odin. As the original doubter turned believer in this topic, I'll look forward to learning more.

Odin wrote:Because of that, and since I am very confident in the structural and automated design qualities, I will be marketing and selling these stills (and there is much more to come!)internationally, IF TESTS TURN OUT OKAY. Goal: a plug & play high-end distilling future for whomever so desires. On a hobby and on a micro brewery / micro distillery level.

I wish you well, my friend. :handgestures-thumbupright:

Odin wrote:And on the pot still function and water distillation functionality.

Way to go :handgestures-thumbupright: It might be a great advantage for importing into non-EEC countries if the packaging/invoice/description played UP the water distilling use/capability and played DOWN its other uses.

Odin wrote:Just so the most critical tests are performed, I plan to give you guys full insight in all of my findings. And I expect you to ask and then ask further and deeper. I might even ship some samples to others to check my findings, since taste is a subjective thing.

I think you know that you can count on us asking more questions. :lol:

Odin wrote:Okay, I am very excited about all this! You guys just keep me with me feet down on the ground, please.Odin.

I'm not surprised you're excited. I'd be, if I were you. :grin: BTW, as a confirmed "iApple" man, I like the "i(ntelligent)Still" moniker! ;-)

New specific thought/question: How well does it work when running already-stripped TPW (or similar non-turbo) :?: I'd run my 5500w pot rig until I had 50-60L of ~40% stripped wash, THEN run through the iStill.
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Re: Interesting news from Poland ...

Postby Odin » Thu Apr 18, 2013 1:28 am

Just diving into your last Q ... that's my approach as is. First a potstill run, then fractionation and making cuts. The iStill could be handled the same. My guess (as for now) is that it will give a high abv end result. The potstill run that is. I mean, I wouldn't take out (part of) the packing. 80 to 85%? Maybe even more, because the latent resistancy of SPP makes for some great "passive" reflux. Not to say that since it is a LM, everything still needs to be cooled at the top before the LM needle valve can take it out. And since a smaller collection cup gives better cuts (less smearing), I am sure not all the condensate will be drawn off. Not even with gates full open. So not just passive reflux, but also active reflux. Maybe 85% would be to low an estimate? Well, we will find out.

For sure stripping will mean you potentially get a faster and cleaner run when fractionating. I can imagine collection speeds to be well up in the 3 liters per hour department.

To answer another Q I did not get into yet, from a few posts ago: yes, the water inlet is also controlled. In two ways. The temperature is measured and - depending on the phase of distillation and the temperature of the cooling water - the amount of cooling water thrown at the column is managed. Cooling water temps are displayed. And in case they would hit 35 degrees C, you get an alarm. I am not sure, but the system might actually auto shut off. Cooling water temps of above 35 degrees C are perceived as: "maybe you have a cooling water problem" or "did the hose get of?" Something like that.

And that isn't even the coolest goody. I love the pressure measuring device. It measures pressure, since pressure influences boiling temperatures. And it also is an early warning system for flooding. So ... no cooling problems (at least not unchecked) and a fail safe for flooding.

I was thinking of hooking that pressure measurer up with my weather station, when not running. Let's find out if it can help us predict what kinda weather we are to expect as well!

:laughing-rolling:

Okay, now I am pulling your guys leggs. I do not have a weather station.

Another answer to another Q: the 50 liter version will run smoothly on a normal 230V, 16 amp circuit. That's what is normal in most EU countries. The 250 liters Big Bertha version needs 18 KW heating up and 9 KW running. Now ... that might ask for some circuit upgrades.

Odin.

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Re: Interesting news from Poland ...

Postby Moscca » Thu Apr 18, 2013 2:56 am

wow, amazing still !!
Not really my thing but very interesting.
Which I had more time to follow all those nice projects.
Good luck Odin !!



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Re: Interesting news from Poland ...

Postby sweden » Thu Apr 18, 2013 4:21 am

The machine is very nice bild YES , but I done this 7-8 years ago alredy and total automatic and stop al at 98 degreds
just plugg in the contakt and it run by it self , that was a old ARC system stil

So this is nothing new that people bilding this days ,, just they make it very more tech and VERY good looking

The hardést is to get neutral direk out from machine with colums who is size from 3- 6 " and full automatic

So am waiting with much intresst to see how the product is from this machine from Odins test
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Re: Interesting news from Poland ...

Postby Odin » Thu Apr 18, 2013 4:48 am

And I will keep you posted, Sweden!

Still just crossed the border. It is in some postal packages depot. Should be in tomorrow!

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Re: Interesting news from Poland ...

Postby sweden » Thu Apr 18, 2013 5:02 am

:handgestures-thumbupright:
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Re: Interesting news from Poland ...

Postby Odin » Thu Apr 18, 2013 7:12 am

Guys,

Today has been a roller coaster. But a great ride at that. Just started my Blog a few hours ago ... 139 visitors up until now. First orders for SPP and wood, discussions with the website builder, talks with suppliers ... I wish y'all a good nights sleep! I know I will!

Odin out.

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Re: Interesting news from Poland ...

Postby Jimbo » Thu Apr 18, 2013 7:14 am

:obscene-drinkingcheers: A toast. Cheers mate.
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Re: Interesting news from Poland ...

Postby Philter » Thu Apr 18, 2013 10:09 am

Odin, Firstly congratulations and thanks for sharing your knowledge regarding the iStill.

I'm curious about the controller and was wondering if the same person/group also wrote the code for it? They must have spent a lot of their time marrying the components to the code and testing with so many variables. It really is an awesome concept.
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Re: Interesting news from Poland ...

Postby Odin » Thu Apr 18, 2013 4:16 pm

The short answer Philter is: "Yes!"

Anyone feel like wettening their apetite?

http://wp.me/p3pXcR-s

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Re: Interesting news from Poland ...

Postby Stinger » Thu Apr 18, 2013 7:50 pm

Odin wrote:Just diving into your last Q ... that's my approach as is. First a potstill run, then fractionation and making cuts. The iStill could be handled the same. My guess (as for now) is that it will give a high abv end result. The potstill run that is. I mean, I wouldn't take out (part of) the packing. 80 to 85%? Maybe even more, because the latent resistancy of SPP makes for some great "passive" reflux. Not to say that since it is a LM, everything still needs to be cooled at the top before the LM needle valve can take it out. And since a smaller collection cup gives better cuts (less smearing), I am sure not all the condensate will be drawn off. Not even with gates full open. So not just passive reflux, but also active reflux. Maybe 85% would be to low an estimate? Well, we will find out.

While running this in "pot-mode" would be good for anyone buying ONE still, I'd personally prefer to run a Dash1 or pot still for all non-neutrals. IMHO, based on experience with a partially-packed CM, more flavour would be retained - but I look forward to your feedback.

Odin wrote:For sure stripping will mean you potentially get a faster and cleaner run when fractionating. I can imagine collection speeds to be well up in the 3 liters per hour department.

I'm with you on those 2 points.

Odin wrote:To answer another Q I did not get into yet, from a few posts ago: yes, the water inlet is also controlled. In two ways. The temperature is measured and - depending on the phase of distillation and the temperature of the cooling water - the amount of cooling water thrown at the column is managed. Cooling water temps are displayed. And in case they would hit 35 degrees C, you get an alarm. I am not sure, but the system might actually auto shut off. Cooling water temps of above 35 degrees C are perceived as: "maybe you have a cooling water problem" or "did the hose get of?" Something like that.

That's what I thought from looking closely at their info. It should minimize water usage and/or help those using recirculation. I'm very impressed. :handgestures-thumbupright:

Odin wrote:And that isn't even the coolest goody. I love the pressure measuring device. It measures pressure, since pressure influences boiling temperatures. And it also is an early warning system for flooding. So ... no cooling problems (at least not unchecked) and a fail safe for flooding.

I was thinking of hooking that pressure measurer up with my weather station, when not running. Let's find out if it can help us predict what kinda weather we are to expect as well!

:laughing-rolling:

My computer is already hooked up to my weather-station. Maybe the two systems together would provide better weather-forecasting than "The Weather Network", providing me with a legit income from this device when people log-in to my site for THE BEST WEATHER FORECASTING - for a small fee, of course. :lol:

Odin wrote:Okay, now I am pulling your guys leggs. I do not have a weather station.

I DO have a small weather-station - but am I pulling your leg? :laughing-rolling:

Odin wrote:Another answer to another Q: the 50 liter version will run smoothly on a normal 230V, 16 amp circuit. That's what is normal in most EU countries. The 250 liters Big Bertha version needs 18 KW heating up and 9 KW running. Now ... that might ask for some circuit upgrades.

Odin.

Odin.

That surprises me Odin since 230v x 16A = 3680w and the stated capacity of the heaters on their eBay ad. is 2 x 2000w. :confusion-confused:
It won't bother me - if a Schuko plug can handle it - since I would be using either a 30A or a 50A circuit.


Anyway, the more I learn about this still, the more impressed I'm becoming. :clap: :clap: :clap:
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Re: Interesting news from Poland ...

Postby Odin » Thu Apr 18, 2013 10:21 pm

Hi,

I think water usage on a 50 liter 23 liter turbo wash is in between 100 and 150 liters. I recall reading something like that. Don't know if that's impressive just from gut feeling. But if a run would take like 7 hours ... one for heat up ... 6 with cooling on ... That would mean ... 19 to 25 liters per hour. One liter every 3 minutes, if we take 20 liters per hour for easy computing, that's 350 mls per minute. Now I am just guessing here, but my much smaller CM fractionating still might be using close to that. Maybe a bit less. But it is run at much lower wattages. And for a much, much longer time. And doing 30 to 40% low wines that are more easily cooled back ...

I guess someone with more LM knowledge than me could give some results on that Q: what's standard water usage on a 50 liter wash, distilled with a bit over 2 inch diameter at 2,000 watts? Anybody?

Edit: it is in! Phew, heavy package. Unpacking about to begin.

Question: I want to post some pictures on my Blog, but get a few notifications from viewers that they cannot see the picture of the still I posted earlier. Could somewone check? Because I can. And the small pictures about the wood for instance ... is that visible to you guys?

Odin.


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Re: Interesting news from Poland ...

Postby Kal » Thu Apr 18, 2013 10:53 pm

I see the still pic on the blog now. When I checked earlier I couldn't see it though.
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Re: Interesting news from Poland ...

Postby Odin » Fri Apr 19, 2013 12:34 am

I don't just have two left hands, I am also a bit of a digibete. Actually, what can I do well?

So I thought you could just copy a picture in. No. You need to do that thru propper controlls. But then the picture would be so small. Luckily my son showed me that there was a fairly big button asking me is I wanted to recise the picture ...

sigh

Okay, downstairs the upstairs it is for now. One package to open. Maybe two.

Or a cup of coffee first? Just teasin'

Stay tuned.
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Re: Interesting news from Poland ...

Postby Odin » Fri Apr 19, 2013 8:17 am

Got her assembled!

http://wp.me/3pXcR

Odin.

Some pictures. First is the water management system. Second is a bloke being happy with the new still he got in, etc.
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Re: Interesting news from Poland ...

Postby Stainless dude » Fri Apr 19, 2013 9:58 am

I got my popcorn and beer, keep em coming odin :handgestures-thumbupright: :obscene-drinkingcheers:
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Re: Interesting news from Poland ...

Postby Bushman » Fri Apr 19, 2013 11:51 am

Stainless dude wrote:I got my popcorn and beer, keep em coming odin :handgestures-thumbupright: :obscene-drinkingcheers:

Beer :confusion-confused: are you on the wrong forum :laughing-rolling: :laughing-rolling:
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Re: Interesting news from Poland ...

Postby Odin » Fri Apr 19, 2013 4:54 pm

Sorry guys, it doesn't make beer ...

:crying-yellow:

Anyone interested in helping me find a direction on the first run? Since the Turbo ain't done yet, I will feed her some 4th gen rye bread/wheat UJ. So much taste it gave me a vodka that's much too hot with my old rig. After stipping and (CM) fractionating. So how to offer this wash to the iStill? With carbon filtering or without?

http://wp.me/p3pXcR-19

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Re: Interesting news from Poland ...

Postby aqua vitae » Fri Apr 19, 2013 6:56 pm

The only way to see the capacity of the still would be to start without carbon. If it's not capable of producing azeotrope all the time and produce neutral then carbon is the last option.
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Re: Interesting news from Poland ...

Postby sweden » Fri Apr 19, 2013 8:14 pm

:handgestures-thumbupright: agree with this, if you not possble to make pure neutral with out carbon then this machine is just a normal lm machine but full automatic one ;-)
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Re: Interesting news from Poland ...

Postby Odin » Sat Apr 20, 2013 8:50 am

Yep. Azeo is not the same as neutral. I expect to find a vodka. Some taste teft.

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Re: Interesting news from Poland ...

Postby sweden » Sat Apr 20, 2013 5:59 pm

when yo have fine mesh and test it let us know the results ,, thats most importent for me and many here
and how much you can take out
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Re: Interesting news from Poland ...

Postby Odin » Sat Apr 20, 2013 8:47 pm

Will do sir! Running her as we speak. Slowly getting the hang of it. The fact that I am an experienced distiller works against me here. If I could just trust the automation, it would do its job. But that may well be the hardest part. Letting go. Counter intuitive on (especially) fractionating. That's so much about tinkering. Especially in the beginning of the run.

Okay some goodies. It is self learning. So it starts doing things and has some programming to evaluate. Central Q is probably: "how can I draw off as much product within the set parameters?" Set parameters such as " within 0.1 degree c of azeo boiling point" or "within 0.3 degrees ... etc.". It stabilizes and draws off big time. Hence a short run for only minutes. 0.1 liters collected. Then it restabilizes for like 2 to 3 minutes and it has a go at it again. Thinkin something like "what if we would close the needle valve from position 24 (open) to say 16?" It does that and temps at the bottom of the column stay low much longer and azeo (within set parameters) are maintained longer. 0.2 liters on take two. Another 2 minutes of stabilization and another decision to be made. It went to opening setting 12 and got out 0.6 liters of azeo. Now it is doing 0.7 liters in a take. And restabilization seems to be getting shorter and shorter. That's extra impressive, since the abv on the boiler and the abv of the gasses entering the column are getting less and less strong. Steep learning curve. And so is mine.

What I though yesterday to be foam boiling up and blocking the column is just ... its modus operandi. Stabilize, draw off, re stabilize, draw off. Mini, you were right on track! Only ... this interval training wize operation of run/standstill/run/... is (was) so counter intuitive, I couldn't get my mind wrapped around it at first. Up until now CM fractionating at 96%+ has always been about collecting slow. More like taking a continuous walk instead of running/stopping. Must say this running/stopping makes sense from a speed point of view. I am not at take off speeds that can be compared to bubble ball/column combo's, but I think with a 30% (instead of 12) low wines, it should be in the 3 liter ballmark. For a 2 incher and a bit, without bubble ball, how would that rate?

Could we say this thing was sorta batch producing?

Taste: I think we can expect a good vodka out of this non filtered run. Much improved over the original vodka that was too hot. Telling by judging/smelling the output, so final judgment needs to wait.

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Re: Interesting news from Poland ...

Postby sweden » Sat Apr 20, 2013 9:08 pm

:clap: good info

you write this

Taste: I think we can expect a good vodka out of this non filtered run. Much improved over the original vodka that was too hot. Telling by judging/smelling the output, so final judgment needs to wait.


But most off my take out taste good when it come out,, but mix this with water then you see if its clean or not, thats the bigest test to make it pure neutral with water and NO smell or taste

have you done this??
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Re: Interesting news from Poland ...

Postby Odin » Sat Apr 20, 2013 9:16 pm

Sweden, even though it is pissing out 95%+ it isn't making a neutral. It is making vodka. The wash and vodka that went in were very heavy on the taste department. Maillardized rye has been the most taste intensive wash/whiskey I ever made. By far. My fractionating CM still couldn't get the taste out at 96.5%. Azeo take of is not the same as take off without taste. Always some risidual graininess and mouthfeel left. But I will dilute and age and taste again. Confident it achieved at cleaning up the worst (tastewise) I could throw at it.

Minime, not sure what you are asking. Is the needle valve open or closed? I think it is closed under heating up and stabilization. And then it starts to open up. When it cannot hold azeo any longer, it will close. When it is stabilized again, it will open up again. Usually like 1 or 2 steps smaller as before. But if it is running again, it might open up an extra step to increase collection speed. Not sure I am answering your question ...

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Re: Interesting news from Poland ...

Postby sweden » Sat Apr 20, 2013 9:20 pm

okej so then we can say this is a full automatic Lm arc with out make neutral 95% ? Am greatfull that you share al this info with us
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Re: Interesting news from Poland ...

Postby Odin » Sat Apr 20, 2013 9:33 pm

I think for a neutral, you need a neutral wash or a filtration method. That is at least my experience. Especially running from a fresh wash. But others will know better.

Just about to finish fractionating. I now switched to potstill mode to collect tails. Funny thing is, it is stabilizing again. An intentional thing. Also for pot still operation it wants to wetten the packing.

When I did some stripping in pot still mode yesterday, I found out abv isn't that high. Like one, maybe one and a half distillation? It pissed out at around 3 liters per hour.

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Re: Interesting news from Poland ...

Postby sweden » Sat Apr 20, 2013 9:51 pm

I think for a neutral, you need a neutral wash or a filtration method. That is at least my experience. Especially running from a fresh wash. But others will know better.


Okej then it nothing new for me as destiller maker, most off people destill 2 times so they can get pure neutral 95.6 % thats old tech for me
If this machine shuld make pure I probly buy one ;-) becuse its well done machine and good quality tech on it

Thanks so much for make this test and let me know about it

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Re: Interesting news from Poland ...

Postby Odin » Sat Apr 20, 2013 10:31 pm

Hi Sweden, I am not sure we understand each other. I am pretty impressed. This rig gets me to 95.6% in one run and cleans up a drink so flavourfull, a potstill strip, an potstill run with cuts, and a CM fractionating run with cuts (giving me 96.5% all the time) could not clean up. Now just a strip and CM fractionating run with cuts would bring my All Bran to " neutral with some residual grainy mouth feel". Based on the above experiment, my guess is that this rig would turn that into something very close (if not total) neutral. Edit: in one run that is.

Stay tuned!

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Re: Interesting news from Poland ...

Postby sweden » Sat Apr 20, 2013 11:20 pm

with out heads remover in top a dont think you can get out neutral with this and 3 liter , but pls take the outcoming and mix with water and tell me if its no smell or taste ,, if so then you have very intressting machine

I mean NO smell or taste at al,,just pure clean neutral alcohol


My machines I bild you get 95,6 PURE neutral direkt out from machines the inventor was from begining a guy cald FP and then Riku take it from there
Thats the E - arc system who many bild from this days
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Re: Interesting news from Poland ...

Postby Odin » Sun Apr 21, 2013 12:44 am

Curious as to the washes you using, Sweden! Please let me know! And I will be running a more neutral wash soon and give a write up about it for sure. Lots of fun things to do with this still!

Off to find some tubing to fit to the drain. 3/4th and the home whatever shop only had 1/2. Can you imagine?

Oh, Minimi posting while I was. The selenoid valves open or shut. Yes, that's the way it is. So it is heads collection open or closed. Hearts collection open or closed. Drain out product open or closed. And water in open or close. The needle valve is not selenoid valve controlled. It is controlled by a step motor, opening/closing the needle valve in incremental 0.02 mm steps. mm not begin minimes, but millimes. ;)

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Re: Interesting news from Poland ...

Postby Stinger » Sun Apr 21, 2013 12:47 am

Odin, I believe "All-Bran" is one of your go-to recipes for a pleasant-tasting vodka with good mouth-feel. Are you planning to run this as one of your tests?

If so, what is your recipe with minimal All-Bran for fractionating - as opposed to a recipe for maximum taste using a pot still, giving a full-flavoured faux wheat whiskey? (I assume you would NOT put this through carbon - to preserve wheat notes and good mouth-feel.)
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Re: Interesting news from Poland ...

Postby Odin » Sun Apr 21, 2013 12:52 am

About 2/3rd of the normal amount of bran. And I never filter. Dunno if I can do that on short notice. They put something in the bran here that scares the yeasties. Takes ages for these washes to ferment dry. But the turbo should almost be done. As is my own neutral recipe using vits & mins & cooked up yeast.

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Re: Interesting news from Poland ...

Postby sweden » Sun Apr 21, 2013 1:35 am

minime wrote:
sweden wrote:with out heads remover in top a dont think you can get out neutral with this and 3 liter


Sweden, the machine has a heads removal period in the program. You need to read the whole thread and go watch the video posted. ;-)



I know that , but we will see what Odins test will show after been testat with beter mesh

Odin I run mesh with Vodka star and some with alcho tech 14-20 and we get neutral 95,6% direkt from that no strip or destill 2 times

And Minime you shuld also read the treds beter , this is NOT a solinoid valv ;-) This is very new tech and probly the first machine with this needel valv
I am most impresst with the valv,, not the machine
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Re: Interesting news from Poland ...

Postby sweden » Sun Apr 21, 2013 2:05 am

Odin I try to figure out how this valv operates and been loking and study this video and it says start opening at 24 and pot ( what is that?) at 50
at times goes the opening get smaler and pot setings to -opening at finish says 14 and pot 47


can you explain lite beter how its working pls lets say valv opening at 24 how much is the valv opening at this seting? and at 14?
with every less steps 23-22-21-20 how much mm do the valv closes?
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Re: Interesting news from Poland ...

Postby sweden » Sun Apr 21, 2013 2:13 am

I looking at the video and he put it on carbon and when it takes out it flode out ,, thats very strange becuse its 50-70 cm tube and full with carbon and shuld take some time for the alcohol to run trow this carbon

what a like in this machine is 2 things the operation cp screen and the valv , thats very cool :handgestures-thumbupright:
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Re: Interesting news from Poland ...

Postby sweden » Sun Apr 21, 2013 2:16 am

Odin wrote:About 2/3rd of the normal amount of bran. And I never filter. Dunno if I can do that on short notice. They put something in the bran here that scares the yeasties. Takes ages for these washes to ferment dry. But the turbo should almost be done. As is my own neutral recipe using vits & mins & cooked up yeast.

Odin.




""As is my own neutral recipe using vits & mins & cooked up yeast""



Can you share us with your secret recipe?
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Re: Interesting news from Poland ...

Postby Stinger » Sun Apr 21, 2013 2:44 am

Odin wrote:About 2/3rd of the normal amount of bran. And I never filter. Dunno if I can do that on short notice. They put something in the bran here that scares the yeasties.

Thanks Odin. NO Pressure to do that particular (All-Bran) recipe if you no longer regularly use it.

Odin wrote:Takes ages for these washes to ferment dry. But the turbo should almost be done. As is my own neutral recipe using vits & mins & cooked up yeast.

Odin.

But let us know the exact neutral recipe you use - and the brand and abv or sugar content and total volume of the turbos turbos..... As if you don't have enough to do :!: :grin:

Exiting work though. :handgestures-thumbupright:
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Re: Interesting news from Poland ...

Postby Odin » Sun Apr 21, 2013 3:35 am

When is a hobby turning into an obsssion. Dunno exactly. But when I find myself behind my computer at 3 o'clock in the morning, staring at screens, trying to make sense out of this batch like draw off and diving into all the posts on automated stills, without having had a drink for hours ... I guess that's the moment when that happens.

Just to explain myself: it is the "for hours without a drink" that scared me most. You got that already, right?

:lol:

The washes you do, Sweden, I can turn into good vodka's with a pot still. I do not mean that in any offensive way. Just stating I did. At the beginning of my stillin' career. Mighty impressive! Three runs thru my 4 liter airstill. Taking cuts at each run. Took it to the family in law and we compared it with Prince Eristov Vodka. Mine won. So happy and proud. Year later. Marriage. People drinking my whiskey, genever ... and vodka. Vodka? Did I make vodka? "No, but some was left from last year". I took a glass and thought ... rotgut?!? F*ck! I didn't make that!. My distilling evolved from pot to fractionating and so did my taste.

Sweed, just to cut a long story short: if that's the washes you are using ... I will use a similar wash in a short time. In my fractionating old style CM they turn into pretty darn good neutrals. But I distill twice. Potstill first so the abv is higher and I can collect a bit faster. With this new rig, I will do it in one run and I am confident it will do a better job at it then my CM, given its not too good heads compression.

Telling more about the steps? A bit. No technician. It takes steps of 0.02 millimeter. That sounds impressive to me. But I have no experience with needle valves, so that's maybe just me. I think 24 is open, so 12 is half open. "0" should be closed. Haha, and you liked the movies? My friend you have seen nothing yet. Or at least you have heard nothing yet. This is fun, sitting here. You can hear valves opening, clicking. First time the water selenoid kicked in, I jumped half a meter in the air. Sounds like that, when distilling manually (now that's old school!) :lol: ... mean you are in trouble. But here ... it is just the higher management getting into gear.

The other number is a potentiometer (?), I think. It is just there to monitor that the stepper motor is working. Something like that.

Minime, I think an on/of selenoid would be way to crude. Hmm ... almost sounds like I am the expert here ... Not. No problem you were out to lunch. The fun is in "getting it". Lunches are sometimes needed. ;)

Stinger, nothing special. I will post it some time soon. I thought to bring wash nutrients in by vits & mins. Just what the yeast needs. No more. I then thought of some boiled yeast for ... proteins? Or maybe somebody told me to not forget about that. Yeah, that was it.

I have been playing around with a 14% recipe. Per 10 liters 1 multivit (you know, the 100% of your daily requirement) and 0.5 b-vit and one spoon of boiled yeast. Sugar, water, yeast as well. Funny thing was it smelled a bit sulphury in the beginning, but now it smells like a chardonay white wine. Problem is ... it is fermenting for almost 4 weeks now. Okay, cold conditions, but I am thinking there is some preservative stuff in the vits.

I did this because I don't like TPW. I feel my close to neutral an all bran is great, tastewise. And I actually like A48 turned into a neutral. But TPW ... feels so "dead" to me. That's why I journied into developing a recipe of my own. For whiskey or rye, you could try my Cornflakes Whiskey or Odins Rye Whiskey. That later one is the one I did today on the new rig. I will post them here as well.

Sweed, that big filter you write about. That's a bad ass thief. First time you use it, it will hold like 1.2 liter of your precious azeo. But from that point on, it will just give pretty much right away. Why? Because it stays full.

Okay, hope I covered all of your Q.s!

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