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First feints run, advice please

PostPosted: Sat Sep 30, 2017 12:53 am
by guest5234
First feints run, heads and tails....4 gallon of feints watered down to 40% and running a spirit run on t500 column now, collecting in 500ml jars...just wondered in your opinion if you get about the same percentage of heads hearts tails as in a new fermented wash, just seems the taste and smell is consistent through the run up to now which makes it hard to do the cuts well. If I keep say 50% is it OK to keep the heads and tails from this feints run or chuck them?

Re: First feints run, advice please

PostPosted: Sat Sep 30, 2017 5:02 am
by Swedish Pride
as always do your cuts based on smell and taste, after all you're the one whos going to have to drink it.

I don't keep any faints from a faints run , but I know of folks who do faint faint faints run, and seems the commercial boys never toss any faints.

Re: First feints run, advice please

PostPosted: Sat Sep 30, 2017 3:36 pm
by Copperhead road
I have found you get better flavour on feints run with whiskey also there is far more hearts in your run making it very worth while.
Probably why they all smell similar, most is probably hearts :laughing-rolling:
I always discard my feints from an all feints spirit run. :handgestures-thumbupright:

My advice is from someone only learning but that's been my observations when running feints......

Re: First feints run, advice please

PostPosted: Sun Oct 01, 2017 1:36 am
by Rockchucker
Like Swedish said I don't keep faints from a faints run at a point you start down the path of deminished returns. As far as cuts go I find no two runs the same so always approach cuts with the same technique.

Re: First feints run, advice please

PostPosted: Sun Oct 01, 2017 8:19 am
by S-Cackalacky
I mostly just use mine for cleaning runs. I usually do fairly wide cuts on my regular spirit runs, so I never thought a feints run would be worth the effort. I also do a lot of different stuff and mix the feints, so it probably wouldn't produce a very drinkable product anyway.

Re: First feints run, advice please

PostPosted: Sun Oct 01, 2017 8:56 am
by kimbodious
I discard feints from spirit runs from my reflux column still and pot still. I have found the return from spirit runs with feints just not worth the time energy and water expended.

Re: First feints run, advice please

PostPosted: Sun Oct 01, 2017 1:35 pm
by Copperhead road
kimbodious wrote:I discard feints from spirit runs from my reflux column still and pot still. I have found the return from spirit runs with feints just not worth the time energy and water expended.


I wonder why I seem to get a much larger yield of hearts from feints run compared to standard spirit run using pot still :confusion-confused:

Re: First feints run, advice please

PostPosted: Mon Oct 02, 2017 12:15 am
by S-Cackalacky
Only a guess, but maybe you're running too hard on your spirit runs and smearing cuts together. Are your feints runs a larger charge? Other than that, I don't see any possible way it could happen.

Re: First feints run, advice please

PostPosted: Mon Oct 02, 2017 9:56 am
by kimbodious
S-Cackalacky wrote:Only a guess, but maybe you're running too hard on your spirit runs and smearing cuts together.

:text-goodpost:
YMMV but here's how I do a spirit run with my pot still.
Bring power up slowly until foreshots appear (a few drips per second), maintain power at that initial level until collected foreshots.
Increase power until the output is a faltering trickle, maintain power at that point until it is clear that you are in hearts.
Increase power so that output is a steady trickle and maintain power at that point until you either sense that tails are appearing or that there is a change in the type of output stream you are getting (falters a bit).
In hearts you can dial up the power for an even greater rate of output but be prepared to dial it back if you start getting an early whiff of tails (smearing).

If you aren't confident that you can detect the cuts on the fly then my suggestion would be to set the power to the point where you just reach the steady trickle point

A bit of tails in your product may dissipate over time but I find the sharp burn of heads never does.

... a quick strip and a slow screw gets the job done

Re: First feints run, advice please

PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2017 12:14 am
by S-Cackalacky
Kimbo, sounds like a very sound method. Pot stills need to be somewhat babied along during a spirit run.

Re: First feints run, advice please

PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2017 5:23 am
by Copperhead road
S-Cackalacky wrote:Only a guess, but maybe you're running too hard on your spirit runs and smearing cuts together. Are your feints runs a larger charge? Other than that, I don't see any possible way it could happen.


I'm not sure as I always run very slow on spirit run (12 minutes per 300 ml jar)
I think what maybe happening is I put much more back into feints keg after cuts than most I think, because I am still learning cuts and finding it harder to recognise fractions I am going a lot wider with heads and tails to be sure in turn I'm ending up with hearts in my feints. That's the only reason I can think of after reading responses from the experience fellas. :handgestures-thumbupright:

Re: First feints run, advice please

PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2017 7:14 am
by kimbodious
C-Road, if yours is only a 2" system I would suggest that 1500ml per hour is not all that slow on a spirit run particularly if you are acheiving that as early as heads. Once you are in hearts you can start chasing the higher output rate but before that it should be steady as she goes.

Re: First feints run, advice please

PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2017 10:54 am
by kimbodious
guest5234 wrote:First feints run, heads and tails....4 gallon of feints watered down to 40% and running a spirit run on t500 column now, collecting in 500ml jars...just wondered in your opinion if you get about the same percentage of heads hearts tails as in a new fermented wash, just seems the taste and smell is consistent through the run up to now which makes it hard to do the cuts well. If I keep say 50% is it OK to keep the heads and tails from this feints run or chuck them?


Your return of hearts from an all feints run will be small compared with the heads and tails; you extracted most of the hearts component in the previous spirit run

If you're having trouble making cuts collect smaller samples say 250ml

Do you have a means of controlling the power to the boiler? A slow and gentle rate of boiling may reduce the amount of smearing of hearts and tails through the product.

I made a power controller for a mate to help them gain better control of the rate of boiling with their T500

Re: First feints run, advice please

PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2017 12:37 pm
by kimbodious
Great discussion to do with rate of output and ABV on pot still spirit runs here

Re: First feints run, advice please

PostPosted: Thu Oct 05, 2017 4:16 pm
by Copperhead road
kimbodious wrote:Great discussion to do with rate of output and ABV on pot still spirit runs here


Thanks for sharing link kimbo, I best get reading :grin:

Re: First feints run, advice please

PostPosted: Sun Oct 08, 2017 3:35 am
by Zymurgy Bob
Be really careful with what you believe from that conversation, and look to basic principles. Look at Roualt's law, Dalton's law and the principles of azeotropes and van der Waals forces (entrainment?). Also consider that ALL of the volatile liquids that may be in your wash will vaporize at any temperature you'll encounter in a still, water methanol, ethanol, acetone, even the long-chain fatty acids so prevalent in tails. If you can smell 'em they're evaporating (vaporizing).

To make sense of a lot of complicated interacting principles, in an ideal (without reflux) potstill, every drop that comes out as distillate has in it some of every volatile liquid in the boiler, and the relative concentrations of those liquids will vary continuously from the first drop to the last. The product is part of a spectrum, and any ideas of separation are illusory.

Re: First feints run, advice please

PostPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2017 2:06 pm
by crow
feints of feints chance of getting much worth keeping? Faint and not worth the energy.