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Mr P's HERMS (Heat Exchanger Recirculating Mash System) buil

Mr P's HERMS (Heat Exchanger Recirculating Mash System) buil

Postby Prairiepiss » Sat Oct 20, 2012 1:38 pm

Some of you have seen me talk about it. Some have asked questions about it. So here goes. I posted it here in the AG beer section. Wasn't really sure where it would fit best? Please move if you feel like it needs to be.

I'm building a HERMS (Heat Exchanger Recirculating Mash System) Brewing system. For both homebrew beer and AG mashes for distilling. It will consist of three kegs with the tops cut out. All will have 3/4" drains through the bottom. I have added 3/8" t's as low as I can get them in the sides for level gauges and future temp probes. They all have a 3/8" coupler welded in as close to the top as I can get them. These will be fill ports and sparge arm connections for the MLT. I welded in a 3/4" half coupler in each of them up front for dial thermometers. Little over kill for the size of fitting. But it is what I had. There will be valves and male QD fittings on all ports used for liquid transfer.

First tank is the HLT (Hot Liquor Tank) It will have a 40 foot coil of 1/2" SS tubing for the heat exchanger in it. Will be fired with a 5500w element. Temps will be controlled by a PID. I've welded a 1" coupler in pretty low for the element mount.

Second tank is the MLT (Mash Lauter Tun) It has a false bottom. I found it cheaper and easier to buy a premade one. It's 11" in diameter and is raised up in the middle. And flared around the outside to fit the contour of the keg. It's normally installed with a drain tube coming from the side of the keg down through the top of it. I went a different route because of my bottom drains. I made a standoff to fit over the drain that I can secure the false bottom to.

Third tank is the BT (Boil Tank) it too has a false bottom just like the MLT. And also has a 5500w element in it like the HLT.

I know I'm forgetting something. But it will come up as I go through the build.

Some of you mite remember I had made a MLT out of a ice cube cooler. I decided to go ahead and make one out of a keg. And I think I will gift that one to a brewing buddy.

I had already built my stand a while back. It's made out of pallets I got from work. And I made it so the hight of the kegs would be where I could stand flat footed and reach the bottom of the keg. Without bending over. And a shelf under it for mounting the march pumps on and the counterflow wort chiller.

My plans were made following the plans found on this website. http://theelectricbrewery.com/All I have done is change things a bit to utilize materials available to me. And better ideas I think will work? Like the bottom drains. I have always hated cleaning out my still boiler with the side drain. What a pita.

Warning my welds are ugly. But are stainless just done with a MIG. Again because that's what's available to me. And I don't do it enough.

Here are some pics of the brew stand when I built it. You will see the two kegs and the cooler MLT in these pics.
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Re: Mr P's HERMS (Heat Exchanger Recirculating Mash System)

Postby Prairiepiss » Sat Oct 20, 2012 1:41 pm

I cut the tops out of the kegs with a plasma cutter. I marked a 12" circle on it. When I went to cut it out. I found out if I rested the cutter head on the top ring. And rested my hand on the sankey valve. It was damn near perfect. And made for a nice and easy cut.
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Re: Mr P's HERMS (Heat Exchanger Recirculating Mash System)

Postby Prairiepiss » Sat Oct 20, 2012 1:47 pm

Here are some pics of the MLT progress.

This first one is the 3/4_ bottom drain. I used a T in the MLT and HLT. This was so I could mount my temp probe in it for outlet temps. And to keep the probe out of the way.
1350696639-picsay.jpg


This is the 3/8" fill port. On the MLT a sparge arm will be connected to it on the inside. And a valve with male QD on the outside. For connection to the heat exchanger coil in the HLT. VIA hoses.
1350696675-picsay.jpg


This is the 3/8" T that a level sight gauge will be connected to. And an extra port for another temp probe latter on. If I so choose? Or what ever else mite pop up? I'm really undecided if I will put a sight gauge on the MLT. But I had the fitting and the welder. So I installed it. It will probably be plugged off for now. I only have two sight tubes and they will go on the HLT and BT.
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Re: Mr P's HERMS (Heat Exchanger Recirculating Mash System)

Postby Prairiepiss » Sat Oct 20, 2012 1:51 pm

Here is the false bottom setup. And the mount saddle I made. I made it out of a funky triclamp I had came up with. Removed the hinged connector between the two halves. Ground the ends off. Drilled a hole and welded a SS bolt in place.
1350696525-picsay.jpg


Here is the false bottom attached to the saddle before I welded it in.
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Re: Mr P's HERMS (Heat Exchanger Recirculating Mash System)

Postby Prairiepiss » Sat Oct 20, 2012 1:54 pm

Here is the MLT false bottom saddle welded in. And the false bottom in place.
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Re: Mr P's HERMS (Heat Exchanger Recirculating Mash System)

Postby Prairiepiss » Sat Oct 20, 2012 1:56 pm

I got one more pic here for now. This is of the BT with the false bottom in place and the element in place. I forgot I took it. It's not a great pic. But you will get the idea. I will get some better ones of it tomorrow.
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Re: Mr P's HERMS (Heat Exchanger Recirculating Mash System)

Postby Prairiepiss » Sun Oct 21, 2012 3:10 am

I forgot to add. For corn based whiskey mashes and some others. I am making a steam head for my still boiler. So I can use it to cook the corn with steam injection. Seeing how it would never work with this HERMS system. Those added steam head parts will be built to double as modular still parts.

And for future testing a playing. I will be building a lid or two that will fit on any of the brew kettles. That will turn them into still boilers and or thumpers. Why not utilize all the parts in as many ways as I can? Like the HLT with the coil in it. Possible steam heated still boiler? Or steam plumbed to the drain on either the MLT or BT with the false bottom on it for a steam injected still boiler? Would be nice for stillin on the grain or fruit. Whole world of possibilities that I will try to make as easy as I can to later take advantage of.

And for the controller.

I have a Honeywell PID I will be using to start with. I picked it up used. But plan to buy new ones from auberins. For the big brew controller build. When funding is available. http://www.auberins.com/index.php?main_ ... ducts_id=3

I have 6 SSRs ordered and on the way. My brew controller when finished will have 3 or 4 in it. And two for my still controller. Plus a spare?

I'm going to build a basic controller for now with one PID controlling a SSR for the HLT and a phase angle for the BT. It will double as my still controller for now. And end up being my still controller when all said and done.

The final brew controller will have 4 or 5 PIDs. And will have both HERMS and RIMS capabilities. Similar to the one The Electric Brewery site has. But like I said funding for that will need to be worked into the ever shrinking budget.
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Re: Mr P's HERMS (Heat Exchanger Recirculating Mash System)

Postby Prairiepiss » Wed Dec 05, 2012 11:16 am

Does my thermometer make my mash tun look small. :mrgreen:
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Re: Mr P's HERMS (Heat Exchanger Recirculating Mash System)

Postby Prairiepiss » Wed Dec 05, 2012 3:50 pm

bentstick wrote:Nice brew system PP,someday when the mancave is done!

Thanks Ben. It's a work in progress. Well more like work with little progress. :lol: I've been collecting parts for this for a little over a year now. Scrounging as much as I could. I'm to the point where I need to dish out the big bucks to finish it up. And it will be my Christmas gift. I'm ordering pumps and PIDs this week. Maybe a plate chiller? I have all the fittings welded in all three kettles. The only welding left is the feet mounts on the HLT and BT. A little grinding left to do. Then the kettles will all be done. I can then start in on the temporary brew controller. So I can get it working.
Nothing real fancy. 1 PID to control the HLT another slave PID for temp display and alarms for the MT. And a manual pot controller for the BT.

I figured out finally the PIDs I have are all relay output. Not SSR output. So not much good for this. But since they were dirt cheap. $10 for 5 of them used. I think I will use them for temp indicators and alarms. That later on I can use for the still. And have multiple temp indicators. The housing I'm going to use will hold 4 PIDs. For the brew rig that would give me one for each tank and one for the chiller output.
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Re: Mr P's HERMS (Heat Exchanger Recirculating Mash System)

Postby Prairiepiss » Thu Dec 06, 2012 11:23 am

Got the last welding done. And all the inside grinding done tonight. I need some more fittings. But it looks more like a brew rig now. Thermometers for the BT and HLT will have to wait till funding comes up. They aren't going to be necessary with the PIDs anyway. I need to go buy carriage bolts for the feet. Was waiting to find out what length would work best.
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Re: Mr P's HERMS (Heat Exchanger Recirculating Mash System)

Postby Prairiepiss » Mon Dec 17, 2012 6:04 am

I've been fighting leaks on all my welds. To the point I want to smash this crap with a sledge hammer.

But I hadn't shown the pics of my new way of mounting the elements. I used a stainless 1" NPT union. Welded the threaded half to the keg. And installed the other half on the element. I wanted an easier way to change them out if I wanted too. But couldn't afford triclamp ferrules. And had these already.
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Re: Mr P's HERMS (Heat Exchanger Recirculating Mash System)

Postby Prairiepiss » Mon Dec 17, 2012 6:06 am

IMAG1780-picsay.jpg


Here is the element from the inside.
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Re: Mr P's HERMS (Heat Exchanger Recirculating Mash System)

Postby jake_leg » Mon Feb 04, 2013 12:27 pm

Some day I will have a HERMS instead of lots of bits and pieces that someday might become a HERMS.

Your system is about my kind of speed. When I see polished kegs I just want to go up and slap that person in the face. Kegs weren't meant to be polished.
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Re: Mr P's HERMS (Heat Exchanger Recirculating Mash System)

Postby Spud1700 » Mon Feb 04, 2013 4:03 pm

jake_leg wrote:Some day I will have a HERMS instead of lots of bits and pieces that someday might become a HERMS.

Your system is about my kind of speed. When I see polished kegs I just want to go up and slap that person in the face. Kegs weren't meant to be polished.


LOL I think the same thing but I would not say it :)
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Re: Mr P's HERMS (Heat Exchanger Recirculating Mash System)

Postby Prairiepiss » Mon Feb 04, 2013 4:17 pm

When I first started collecting parts for this. My plan was to polish the kegs. But as I started building it and putting my brew room together. I changed my mind. Being all beat up fits in nicely with the reclaimed dunage furniture. Got keep the Redneckery going on. :teasing-tease:
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Re: Mr P's HERMS (Heat Exchanger Recirculating Mash System)

Postby jake_leg » Mon Feb 04, 2013 4:25 pm

The pallet table? Yes I intend pinching that idea too. :)

If you did it again would you use triclamp drains and cut out the bottom of the kegs instead of the top?
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Re: Mr P's HERMS (Heat Exchanger Recirculating Mash System)

Postby Spud1700 » Mon Feb 04, 2013 6:17 pm

I have a fella who wants me to make one of these with 5 kegs, I have cut out the tops and nothing else. He has told me where he wants nipples welded in and holes drilled and mesh put into kegs. To be honest I have no idea what I am doing or how one of these set ups work. He wants it mounted on a frame with racks for burners and a frame welded to the kegs so it is one unit.

Any tips would be greatly appreciated, anything at all??????

I am clueless and would like to have some idea of what he is talking about :)
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Re: Mr P's HERMS (Heat Exchanger Recirculating Mash System)

Postby Spud1700 » Mon Feb 04, 2013 6:19 pm

jake_leg wrote:
If you did it again would you use triclamp drains and cut out the bottom of the kegs instead of the top?


Damn that would have been a good idea before I cut the kegs I have here.... To late now.
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Re: Mr P's HERMS (Heat Exchanger Recirculating Mash System)

Postby Maheel » Mon Feb 04, 2013 7:25 pm

Spud1700 wrote:
Any tips would be greatly appreciated, anything at all??????

I am clueless and would like to have some idea of what he is talking about :)



are the kegs welded to the frame ?

the mash tun (grain mashing vessel) would be good on a big hinge so you could tip it and shovel / scrape / hose out the grain
mongrel job reaching in to clean it out...

consider getting him to by domed false bottoms instead of custom mesh.....

is he putting in herms or rims heating for the mash vessel?
camlocks or ? for plumbing...

my 3V is half done...

sounds like a big job... maybe get some payment upfront....
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Re: Mr P's HERMS (Heat Exchanger Recirculating Mash System)

Postby jonnir » Mon Feb 04, 2013 9:18 pm

So that's what all those kegs were for :laughing-rolling:
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Re: Mr P's HERMS (Heat Exchanger Recirculating Mash System)

Postby Spud1700 » Mon Feb 04, 2013 10:26 pm

Maheel wrote:
Spud1700 wrote:
Any tips would be greatly appreciated, anything at all??????

I am clueless and would like to have some idea of what he is talking about :)



are the kegs welded to the frame ?

the mash tun (grain mashing vessel) would be good on a big hinge so you could tip it and shovel / scrape / hose out the grain
mongrel job reaching in to clean it out...

consider getting him to by domed false bottoms instead of custom mesh.....

is he putting in herms or rims heating for the mash vessel?
camlocks or ? for plumbing...

my 3V is half done...

sounds like a big job... maybe get some payment upfront....


All 5 kegs will be welded together with a piece of stainless angle welded 1/3 and 2/3 up the keg. He got a custom mesh thing from the US the same as PP has in the photo but it does not fit in the keg properly. He has a lot of other fittings and bits of tube and few plastic bendy bits that go on the top of the keg and can be angled to make it swirl????

I have no idea about the herms or rims.

Can I ask what is the difference between the 3 and 5 keg version?

No comment on the kegs you saw......
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Re: Mr P's HERMS (Heat Exchanger Recirculating Mash System)

Postby harley » Tue Feb 05, 2013 4:36 am

Hi

Why are you doing it so advance, almoust all brewery and whisky maker here in sweden are using singlen infusion and this is wery easy,cheep to built and use,,

http://www.thestoutpalace.com/?page_id=1026

Cheers
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Re: Mr P's HERMS (Heat Exchanger Recirculating Mash System)

Postby Spud1700 » Tue Feb 05, 2013 9:33 am

Thanks for the links and info fellas, I will show him and have a read myself. As I said I have NO idea how this all grain stuff works. At the moment it is kind of a case of he says cut this, I want these welded on here and a frame here and a piece of angle across here. I would like to actually know why I am doing stuff, I'll be keen to see how it all works when it is all finished for curiosity sake.

PP any chance of some photos when you do a run with it and she is all up and running? I would be curious to see how it all works :)
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Re: Mr P's HERMS (Heat Exchanger Recirculating Mash System)

Postby Prairiepiss » Tue Feb 05, 2013 2:09 pm

jake_leg wrote:The pallet table? Yes I intend pinching that idea too. :)

If you did it again would you use triclamp drains and cut out the bottom of the kegs instead of the top?

If I did it again. And I had the money. Yes. But then again if I had the money. I would get 20 or 30 gallon pots also. As it is now I can't afford the rest of the equipment I need to get the damn thing working. I'm getting to the point of being pissed off about it. And the thought of selling the crap has crossed my mind a time or five. :angry-banghead:
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Re: Mr P's HERMS (Heat Exchanger Recirculating Mash System)

Postby Prairiepiss » Tue Feb 05, 2013 2:18 pm

Spud when I do get the damn thing finished. I planned on making some videos. Bit I wouldn't hold my breath. It mite be a while before its done. But here this site has some good stuff on the system I'm building. Along with operational instructions and videos.
http://theelectricbrewery.com/

I'm not really sure why you would need 5 kegs? That gust doesn't make since to me? Most setups have 3 tanks. The HLT hot liquor tank, MT mash tun, and the BT boil tank. I can't think of what the the 2 tanks are for? Unless he wants to do back to back batches? Maybe a second Mt and BT?
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Re: Mr P's HERMS (Heat Exchanger Recirculating Mash System)

Postby Prairiepiss » Tue Feb 05, 2013 2:30 pm

punkin wrote:Here ya go spud i looked it up for you...

Just seems a clever way to do it.

http://www.rubystreetbrewing.com/tp40/p ... ?id=263057

There is someone elsethat sells an all stainless version. Can't remember who it was? But it does look like a nice setup. Maybe one day when I win the loto I can get something that fancy. For now I will have to make do with the scrap pile I have.
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Re: Mr P's HERMS (Heat Exchanger Recirculating Mash System)

Postby Prairiepiss » Tue Feb 05, 2013 2:44 pm

harley wrote:Hi

Why are you doing it so advance, almoust all brewery and whisky maker here in sweden are using singlen infusion and this is wery easy,cheep to built and use,,

http://www.thestoutpalace.com/?page_id=1026

Cheers


I will be able to do a single infusion with this setup. When its complete. But even for a single infusion. You still need something to heat your strike water and sparge water to temp. And you still need a boil tank. So what's the difference? The only difference is I will have a HERMS coil in my HLT. I could very easily add a RIMS tube and do any of the above.

But the main reason I'm building this HERMS setup is. I want to. :teasing-tease:
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Re: Mr P's HERMS (Heat Exchanger Recirculating Mash System)

Postby Maheel » Tue Feb 05, 2013 2:48 pm

the sabco site for some ideas

https://brewmagic.com/brew-magic-v350ms-system


pretty sure this thread has been hijacked :)
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Re: Mr P's HERMS (Heat Exchanger Recirculating Mash System)

Postby Prairiepiss » Tue Feb 05, 2013 3:03 pm

Maheel wrote:the sabco site for some ideas

https://brewmagic.com/brew-magic-v350ms-system


pretty sure this thread has been hijacked :)


Don't bother me much. It's not like I'm doing much of anything with my scrap heap.
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Re: Mr P's HERMS (Heat Exchanger Recirculating Mash System)

Postby Spud1700 » Tue Feb 05, 2013 4:42 pm

Appologies :oops: thanks for the link PP and Maheel :smile:
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Re: Mr P's HERMS (Heat Exchanger Recirculating Mash System)

Postby Prairiepiss » Wed Feb 06, 2013 5:13 pm

Spud1700 wrote:Appologies :oops: thanks for the link PP and Maheel :smile:

Like I said no worries. I would really be curious as to why he want a 5 keg system. :think:
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Re: Mr P's HERMS (Heat Exchanger Recirculating Mash System)

Postby Prairiepiss » Fri Mar 08, 2013 11:06 am

It's not going until I het funding to finish it.
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