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All grain Bourbon ideas.

All grain Bourbon ideas.

Postby WiZkeE » Tue Apr 22, 2014 9:58 am

Hi I have been doing sugar head type UJSM Bourbons but have been dissapointed with the flavor. I'd like to try an all grain Bourbon and would like to hear from anyone who has mashed corn before. I would imagine corn would be difficult to impossible to do in a herms set up as it would gelatinize so much and be impossible to circulate. Any input or recipes would be great.
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Re: All grain Bourbon ideas.

Postby RandyMarshCT » Wed Apr 23, 2014 6:34 am

I don't do herms, but I imagine it would be difficult to impossible. What about the sugarhead flavor bothers you most? I've made some pretty good sugarheads using 50/50 cracked corn and sweet feed and keeping my abv to 8% max.

When I do bourbon, I mash in a cooler (after cooking the corn). Not a cooler mash tun, an actual regular cooler (no sense cleaning false bottoms when you can't use them). After cooking the corn I cool it to 165 F with an immersion chiller and dump it into the cooler. I usually lose ~10*F on this transfer. Stir to 153 F and mash in my malts (my recipe is 55% corn, 25% 6-Row, 15% Wheat malt, and 5% Maris Otter). I then leave the cooler overnight and dump it into a fermenter the next day & pitch (on the grains). Ferment on the grains for 1 week, squeeze off the grains into a 2ndary with a brew-in-bag and let settle (+ cold crash) for an additional week.

I keep a bowl of crushed 6-row next to me while I cook the corn. A handful or two on heat up (and sometimes cool down) keeps it from turning completely solid.

There are plenty of people here that know more than I do when it comes to corn whiskey, but I'm happy to answer any questions about my process.
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Re: All grain Bourbon ideas.

Postby RandyMarshCT » Wed Apr 23, 2014 6:39 am

This is my recipe as I developed it, only difference now being that I use cracked corn (crushed) and cook the corn first, rather than using flaked maize. The flaked maize made it easier, but it was very expensive.

http://www.artisan-distiller.net/phpBB3 ... =32&t=8539
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Re: All grain Bourbon ideas.

Postby woodpile » Fri Apr 25, 2014 6:49 am

This is derived from a few other similar recipes, but cut down to fit in 5 gallon equipment. I have some tuning to do, but you might find it useful

• Grind all grains very finely; not just crushed as in brewing
• Set aside 1 lb (about half of) of 6-row and combine with the other grains (not corn) in another container
• In a separate bucket mix 1 gallon cold water into the corn meal (reduces clumping)
• Bring remaining total water to a boil in a stock pot. Substitute some back set in that water to reduce pH. (about ¾ gallon - use caution to not drop too low)
• Add your gypsum (if desired)
• Turn the burner off the pot and dump the wet corn into the boiling water and mix well
• It will start to get viscous but should not get so bad that it's very hard to stir
• Let it cool down to about 152F, it should be close, as the wet corn will have cooled it quite a bit
• You should have at least 1lb of 6-row, (or a few pounds depending on your grain bill) to pitch at this point (alternative: if using 2-row or a small amount of malts, use them all here) dump them into the pot and mix well
• Target temp is 150; if it goes below that at first just turn the burn back on for a couple minutes being careful not to scorch it
• Place in insulated tun so that temp stays above 145F for an hour; leave the pot overnight
• Next day open it up and check the SG, (should be obvious that SG is rising 1.030 - 1.040) and the mash will be much less viscous
• Set aside some of the mash as yeast starter (recommended SG for starters is 1.040)
• Put the mash on the burner and heat it up; stir and scrape bottom to prevent scorching heat it up to 180-200F. Consider increase by decoction method with mostly mash water to reduce risk of scorching
• When it reaches temperature turn off the burner; no need to hold it there or to keep stirring
• Cool to about 150F and add the 6-row you set aside (alternative: use enzymes here)
• Put pot under wraps again and leave it like that for at least 2 hours or overnight again
• Cool the pot however you can until mash is at pitching temperature
• Pour back and forth between plastic fermenter and tun 5 times to aerate the mash. Dump the yeast starter jar into pot before pouring contents into bucket for last time

NOTES:
• Expected OG of well over 1.070 (yeast starter is a good idea for high gravity)
• try a wine press to squeeze the liquid out of the grains before distilling
• 6 row malted barley is recommended – use enzymes if malt content is low
• remainder can be more of the same corn, malted wheat, malted rye, or whatever
• The 2nd cooling from 200 will be very slow. Add malt/enzyme at 150 and even a plastic bucket will keep it warm long enough for conversion
• This recipe fits in a 5 gallon boil pot and igloo water cooler
• I got 4 gal using method below (I probably spilled ½ quart working out methods)
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Re: All grain Bourbon ideas.

Postby Zombie » Fri Apr 25, 2014 8:58 am

Have you been running this for awhile? Or is it a developing recipe?

You did put up a very nice post for this. Complete, and to the point. Something I never seem to get quite right. :lol:

I may need to be "put down" soon.
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Re: All grain Bourbon ideas.

Postby skow69 » Fri Apr 25, 2014 9:43 am

I have become a big fan of High Temp Alpha Amylase. Takes the pain out of cooking corn and seems to aid conversion.
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Re: All grain Bourbon ideas.

Postby skow69 » Fri Apr 25, 2014 9:48 am

Woodpile--that sounds like a lot of work. What is the advantage?
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Re: All grain Bourbon ideas.

Postby WiZkeE » Fri Apr 25, 2014 5:26 pm

Thanks for the ideas guys. I have read some rather vague ideas on doing this using alpha amylase and gluco amylase apparently avoids the corn thickening at all. Does anyone have any experience with this method.
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Re: All grain Bourbon ideas.

Postby Zymurgy Bob » Sat Apr 26, 2014 2:25 am

A big dose of Vague-Be-Gone.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rtnboJ3Kxeo&list=UUG034xngTRhbEAxK8Wya5Gg
The best process I've seen.
Zymurgy Bob, a simple potstiller http://www.kelleybarts.com/zymurgy-bob-books/making-fine-spirits/

You can make whisky in a reflux still, you can make vodka in a potstill,
and you can eat chicken noodle soup with a crescent wrench. But..
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Re: All grain Bourbon ideas.

Postby woodpile » Tue Apr 29, 2014 2:01 am

skow69 wrote:Woodpile--that sounds like a lot of work. What is the advantage?

I have not really found a much easier method to make an AG corn batch work. It has to be heated to make the starch accessible (gelatinize). It gets to thick to work with, hence the 1st amylase addition. It really is not much work, the phase in the morning really only takes a few minutes. Later that day I re-heat it to (nearly boiling) and bring it back down with a wort chiller to 150 - again, about a 30 minute process. Dump in the malted grains and let sit over night, then pitch yeast. Easy once you have gone through it a time or two.
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Re: All grain Bourbon ideas.

Postby woodpile » Tue Apr 29, 2014 2:05 am

Zombie wrote:Have you been running this for awhile? Or is it a developing recipe?

You did put up a very nice post for this. Complete, and to the point. Something I never seem to get quite right. :lol:


Thanks. I am certainly still developing. I am making my 5th batch and have a few minor tweaks to the recipe (I will post soon).

I have found that I can get 1.065 OG. I get 4 gallons after ferment on the grain and pressing. I also found that 2 beano tabs seem to help the ferment go to 1.000 (I am trying 1tab this time).
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Re: All grain Bourbon ideas.

Postby woodpile » Tue Apr 29, 2014 2:32 am

The stripping run produces what I believe to be a fantastic white dog drink at about 50% on my machine. It has huge corn flavor and is quite sweet. I keep about 150ml right out of the middle of the hearts, dilute to 40% and bottle it.

For the rest, I pitch the first 50 ml and run down to about 15%. It is my intention to combine feints and 2 fresh batches for each spirit run. My efficiency has been going up with each batch, I pulled about 2700ml after pitching 50ml and stealing the hearts a bit.

Obviously I had to start up with 3 full runs. The corn taste diminishes a bit during spirit, but seems to be coming out as my first batch ages on two sticks of medium toasted, fully-charred oak.
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Re: All grain Bourbon ideas.

Postby Zombie » Tue Apr 29, 2014 3:32 am

You are certainly in it for the long haul Woodpile. I admire you fellas that put so much effort (love) into what you produce.

What is it the Beano tabs do for your mash? I'm sure I've read something on them but it slips my cluttered mind what it was.

I may need to be "put down" soon.
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Re: All grain Bourbon ideas.

Postby woodpile » Tue Apr 29, 2014 1:15 pm

From what I can tell, they help break down certain unfermentable sugars so the yeast can turn them into alcohol. In brewing you want some of that for body etc - in distilling, it is just wasted potential alcohol. YMMV

Here is my latest version:

• Grind all grains very finely; not just crushed as in brewing. Keep all grains in separate containers
• In the morning, mix 1 gallon cold water into the corn meal (reduces clumping)
• Bring remaining total water to a boil in a stock pot. Substitute some back set in that water to reduce pH. (about ½ - ¾ gallon - use caution to not drop too low)
• Add your gypsum (if desired) 1 – 1½ tsp
• Turn the burner off the pot and dump the wet corn into the boiling water and mix well
• It will start to get viscous but should not get so bad that it's very hard to stir
• The wet corn will have cooled it to about 155F (pH 5.5 +/-.2), this is the Alpha target
• Add all un-malted grains
• Add amylase enzyme
• Place in insulated tun to keep the temps up; leave for a few hours
• Prepare a yeast starter using DME or previous wash (recommended SG for starters is 1.040)
• In the afternoon, open it up and check the SG, the mash will be much less viscous
• Put the mash on the burner and heat it up; stir and scrape bottom to prevent scorching heat it up to 180-200F. Increase by decoction method with mostly mash water to reduce risk of scorching
• When it reaches temperature turn off the burner; no need to hold it there or to keep stirring
• Cool to <150F and add the malts This is Beta target (pH 5.0)
• Put pot under wraps again and leave it like that overnight, or for at least 2 hours
• Next morning continue to cool the pot however you can until mash is at pitching temperature
• Pour back and forth between plastic fermenter and tun 5 times to aerate the mash. Dump the yeast starter jar into pot before pouring contents into bucket for last time

NOTES:
• Expected OG up to 1.070 (use for cups of pressed corn as a starter – goes fast!)
• After ferment, scoop liquid off top. Use colander to “bounce” grain to drain; put solids in press
• Use wine press to squeeze more liquid out of the grains
• 6 row pale malted barley is recommended – (calculate diastatic power)
• remainder can be more of the same corn, malted wheat, malted rye, (note diastatic power)
• The 2nd cooling from 200 will be very slow. Add malt at 150 and even a plastic bucket will keep it warm long enough for conversion (if enzyme levels are sufficient)
• This recipe fits in a 5 gallon boil pot and igloo water cooler
• Expect 4 gal wash using values below
• I use a new paint stirrer on a drill to mix and oxygenate – works great!

v5 1.PNG
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