the modern distiller

Welcome to the modern distiller

How can you benefit from this forum...give us ideas to become the best forum we can be.

Re: Welcome to the modern distiller

Postby lokibrew » Wed Oct 10, 2012 7:03 pm

Veteran IT guy at your service. Experienced home brewer, rookie distiller

Happy to discuss hosting and technology anytime I have time
What? I have no signature? I'll fix that right away! :techie-computer:
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Re: Welcome to the modern distiller

Postby FullySilenced » Thu Oct 11, 2012 2:12 pm

Moved to Suggestion Section... :D


viewtopic.php?f=37&t=525
Last edited by FullySilenced on Thu Oct 11, 2012 2:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Welcome to the modern distiller

Postby Lupus » Fri Oct 12, 2012 1:49 pm

I know I am a totally new member with no distilling credibility to my name, however, it is a novel idea, letting the forum members input into the forum's constitution.

With my experiences with other forums, I could not help but chime in.

The idea of a totally democratic forum, while admirable, is doomed to failure. Some degree of control needs to be exercised by the heads, otherwise the forum degenerates into anarchy. Boys will be boys, and the relative anonymity afforded by the Internet seems to foster the trouble making child in all of us. So, someone has to play the bad guy.

The next problem is the system being discussed here is less of a democratic system and one more similar to an aristocracy. It has been suggested that the forum head be elected by moderators. However, all this is doing realistically is shifting the figure head around. And the ones choosing said figure head are the current office bearers. If not carefully monitored, this can degenerate into two separate class of members, the ones in the moderator clique and the rest of the forum. The moderators who dan get away with anything and the pleb who constantly lives under threat from those above.

The next issue with this set up is the moment you have two classes of members, there will be some who will take delight in making mischief, on both sides of the fence.

The reason we all hang out in forums is for fun. We are all on here to enjoy a hobby and share knowledge. All this politics really messes up a good time.

The concern about the forum degenerating into an autocratic nightmare isca valid one. But the administrator is not the only one at fault. Moderators also have the same risk if power going to their head.

Perhaps a better idea is a charter or code of conduct applicable to those in charge. And who polices the police? Perhaps a third party, given no other power apart from monitoring moderator behavior?

There will be no ideal forum. The team here should be applauded in looking out for a better system. But care should be taken no to replace one potential dictitor to a clique of dictators.
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Re: Welcome to the modern distiller

Postby Lupus » Fri Oct 12, 2012 3:14 pm

Minime,
Excuse the verbose and probably confusing post. My suggestion was not one of deposing the current regime, if one can use the term, but rather one of checks and balances. Truth be told, I am not sure why anyone would want moderator status, as it sounds more like a chore than anything else. But the Doctor indicated that he did not want the forum degenerating into his personal fiefdom with the power going to his head.

My response is
1) the fact he is aware of it makes it less likely
2) even if he does, as administrator, it is his right. he set the place up, his rules. We can either play by those rules or find a better playpen.

What I was trying to say was, it is not just the administrator who is at fault with the downfall of a forum. Despotic activity by moderators can just as often be a problem.

The issue is not one of politics, but human nature. The election process nay not solve anything by virtue of the ones in charge doing the nominating. It might ge better setting up guidelines and checks to monitor their behavior. If they are aware of the issue and truly want to avoid it, stay in charge and just put in place checks and balances to not become the monster
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Re: Welcome to the modern distiller

Postby the Doctor » Fri Oct 12, 2012 3:57 pm

Lupus thank you for a well thought out summation...To be clear no forum is a true democracy, the nature of the founder holding the server keys all but prevents this from occurring. so most forums are dictatorships...the best we can achieve is a benign dictatorship.
Some degree of control needs to be exercised by the heads, otherwise the forum degenerates into anarchy. Boys will be boys, and the relative anonymity afforded by the Internet seems to foster the trouble making child in all of us. So, someone has to play the bad guy.

I agree that some kind of control has to be exercised...but why only by the heads...why are the participants not responsible for their bad behaviour. If you act badly you have contravened the constitution and in effect resigned, as to be a member you have to uphold the constitution...membership is not a given, upholding the constitution is the key to membership. And no one is forcing anyone to be a member. The only difference here is that the individual is responsible for themselves. The constitution is a very well worded and precise summation of acceptable societal behaviour. As for boys being boys if anyone old enough to drink in their respective country still thinks they are boys and not mature adults I think they are on the wrong forum the Fisher Price forum is that way...we are adults and are simply and politely requested to act as same. It is a case of not treating people as children, but giving them the opportunity to commune in a forum based on a basic belief that a functioning society is one where the individual is cognoscent of the greater societal good...this is not new it dates back to Plato and Aristotle. As for creating a class based society...yes that is a problem when ever any group are raised to be mods, masters, admins etc...but I believe that avoiding that is simply a case of good leadership and good role modelling. The Election of an administrator is finally left to the mods because, the role is not a popularity contest so much as a role which requires a very level head and a finely tuned sense of social justice...This is something I am not willing to leave to chance. Popularity and good governance are often strange bedfellows. I look for respect and maturity as the precursors of good governance. As for my role all I can say is that I have publicly stated that I will adopt the role of titular head of administration...if it were the Westminster system that would be the role of the Queen...or in my own country the Governor General
An administrator of last resort, and the protector of the constitution. As for a code of conduct for those in charge you will notice that the conduct of mods and administration is also covered by the constitution and we are not exempt from its implications ...One of the things I did when setting up this forum was to be extremely careful to select a moderation panel, which is mature judicious and had demonstrated people skills as displayed on other forums...they are moderate in their approach and know that that is expected. They too are responsible for their own actions and are not exempt in any way to the requirements of the constitution. I have a firm hand on the tiller...but I know after many years of racing yachts from Lasers to offshore yachts..that the skipper who leaves the cleanest wake behind him ...is always the winner.
Thanks again for you thought provoking post. It is always good to question. Respectful debate is the very heart of a healthy society.
Regards
Doc
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Re: Welcome to the modern distiller

Postby the Doctor » Fri Oct 12, 2012 4:58 pm

punkin wrote:Also worth remembering that (as i remember it) while the admin is voted on by the mods, the nominations are open to the members and come from there...


that is true Punkin any one can nominate themselves or be nominated
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Re: Welcome to the modern distiller

Postby Lupus » Fri Oct 12, 2012 7:47 pm

Doc,
Many thanks for the considered response. You most definitely have thought this out carefully.

To a large degree, it looks like you have a very a firm and optimistic view of the public. I guess I come for the other side of the tracks. It doesn't seem like that long ago when I was hanging around with a crowd that seemed to enjoy creating mayhem on forums and hacking IRC channels. So, excuse the less than positive view of the net.

Also, just because one is old enough to drink legally does not automatically make one responsible. I have a 45 year old mate who is a bigger kid and way more irresponsible than I am. In fact, alcohol and responsibility does not always sit comfortably together. Specially if one is dealing with so called young adults :)

Whatever the case, thanks for'listening'. And, I hope to spend a long time on this frendly and supportive forum!
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Re: Welcome to the modern distiller

Postby the Doctor » Fri Oct 12, 2012 8:04 pm

It is I who should say thank you Lupus you raised points that have haunted me and given me a lot of pause for thought...I am not naive enough to believe that it will be all sunny and light...but as i get older if I do not believe in the better angels of human nature I think life would be just that much less worth the trouble.
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ubrew sluggish

Postby kobold » Sat Oct 13, 2012 5:16 pm

anyone knows what's going on at ubrew.com.au? no sign of life for three weeks and failure to communicate. ordered 5kg of grains, not a biggie, but a simple answer to my inquiries would be nice. i mean it takes 30 secs to reply to an email.
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Re: ubrew sluggish

Postby kobold » Sat Oct 13, 2012 11:02 pm

punkin wrote:
kobold wrote:anyone knows what's going on at ubrew.com.au? no sign of life for three weeks and failure to communicate. ordered 5kg of grains, not a biggie, but a simple answer to my inquiries would be nice. i mean it takes 30 secs to reply to an email.



Which ubrew?

it's a chain store isn't it?



.com.au. i accessed it online, w/ confidence, b/c my first experience was positive a few months ago.
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Re: Welcome to the modern distiller

Postby ZeroGee » Tue Jan 01, 2013 6:15 am

kobold wrote:.com.au. i accessed it online, w/ confidence, b/c my first experience was positive a few months ago.
Don't know how UBrew got tacked in here...

It's the last day of the year:
The Doctor wrote:So guys...lets start to get the ideas together....Im proposing 6 month incumbency or max 1 year starting 1st Jan each year. for Il Presidente and Senor Vice Presidente... They would have between them all the powers of a founder... I would step aside from those duties. and not be able to act without a vote of no confidence...comprising 70% of the moderators... If I were to act I would only be in the role of caretaker. in the eventuality one of you goes mad or bad...
Any takers? Anyone interested? Anyone proposed?
This is a hobby, not a contest.
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Re: Welcome to the modern distiller

Postby ZeroGee » Tue Jan 01, 2013 10:24 pm

bentstick wrote:Zerogee, Minime is it,was done 1 month ago! :-o
Yeah... been off in the woods for a while (figuratively). Mini gently slapped me upside the head to remind me. You guys got the best, first try. Hope he doesn't get too annoyed with the lot of us and toss us all out. :grin:
This is a hobby, not a contest.
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Re: Welcome to the modern distiller

Postby Killthepig » Wed Oct 09, 2013 12:21 am

Whisky doesn't discriminate !
Every Farm should have a Still
"All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others"
:@)
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