the modern distiller

Welcome to the modern distiller

How can you benefit from this forum...give us ideas to become the best forum we can be.

Welcome to the modern distiller

Postby the Doctor » Thu Aug 23, 2012 7:24 pm

Hello all...A new forum seems to rise every other day...so why another... well, I have spent a lot of time haunting the many forums on distilling some are good...some terrible..some mediocre... the biggest problem I saw was what I call the tin god syndrome ... a situation where the forum author becomes overtime a dictator...incapable of allowing the forum to develop in an organic way...To this end I am opening this forum up to the idea that the role of head of the forum be of a limited duration... this may be unrealistic but I want to hear your opinions and ideas regarding the possibility of this happening...
Although based in Australia...this is a truly international board...all are welcome.
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Re: Welcome to the modern distiller

Postby the Doctor » Fri Aug 24, 2012 8:21 am

I think if we are to be true to the ideal we should see what the members / moderators want...I think either a 6 month or 1 year term would be ideal...I think that the role or el presidente should be open to all but determined by the moderators...I think that it would also be good to mentor new moderators by encouraging mods with one category mod rights..especially if they are specialists in certain areas..eg airstills which I know bugger all about...if there were a singularly talented member in that area why not make them responsible for the mentor moderator role in that category ...one of the reasons I have changed the forum software so many times has been to get that sort of sub forum control...to allow groups to rise within the greater forum... anyhow my 2c worth...viva la revolution...

still not telling anyone about the forum until I get it sorted out more...but glad you came aboard...would you consent to being a Moderator please.
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Re: Welcome to the modern distiller

Postby Frank » Fri Aug 24, 2012 7:05 pm

I completely agree with your 'lateral' idea of rotational leadership in this distillation forum. Semi-regular change is good, no doubt,IMHO.

As in a successful society, so in a successful forum, I reckon (wheres the "+1" smiley when you need it?).
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Re: Welcome to the modern distiller

Postby the Doctor » Fri Aug 24, 2012 7:08 pm

Ill have to sort the smileys out...Doh!
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Re: Welcome to the modern distiller

Postby stubbydrainer » Fri Aug 24, 2012 10:00 pm

Hello to all
I agree wholesomely on the above concept of the rotational leadership of this forum, the concept of democracy is not new , but I don't think I have ever seen it used in a forum based community, ( although , I am often wrong :lol: :lol: )
its brilliant .....simply brilliant :D , after all democracy is the basis of our society in a free world, so.. I cannot see it how it would fail

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Re: Welcome to the modern distiller

Postby the Doctor » Sat Aug 25, 2012 6:31 pm

So guys...lets start to get the ideas together....Im proposing 6 month incumbency or max 1 year.starting 1st Jan each year. for Il Presidente and Senor Vice Presidente... They would have between them all the powers of a founder... I would step aside from those duties. and not be able to act without a vote of no confidence...comprising 70% of the moderators... If I were to act I would only be in the role of caretaker. in the eventuality one of you goes mad or bad... The Il Presidente would be picked by the moderators, however could be nominated by the rank and file. the vice presidente can be picked by Il presidente and would have the role of being the second guy with the key to the Atom Bomb...a failsafe...This is to prevent the possibility of the Presidente being singularly nasty to someone...the vice would provide some perspective to situations where say perhaps a personal attack has taken place.... There would be 2 levels of moderators...Moderators & Mentors Moderators would have full MOd privileges Mentors would be people with experience which sets them apart from the rank and file...they may serve concurrently as Mods ...but not necessarily ...When we have fully discussed the concepts...I will commit it to a constitution and will promise to abide by it.... My health is not always great so I will in time work out a safety net so someone always has access to all the keys to the forum ...and also a succession plan.I really am excited by the promise of this forum If we build it good...they will come..I just know it.... please add to these thoughts you opinions and guidance... also when It comes to rules the obvious ones should be there... but if any one has opinions...please say... Also you may note that we are the first distilling forum which has a section dedicated to women...IM sure there are women distillers rare though they may be...but also think of wives and girlfriends who share the hobby in some way...this is for them and I think about time. we are the modern distillers after all.
So sorry for the long post ...but there are always issues to resolve at first.
Take care
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Re: Welcome to the modern distiller

Postby Spud1700 » Sat Aug 25, 2012 6:56 pm

I am 100% in agreement reference the Tin God syndrome I have seen it on two particular forums which is one big reason why I give distilling forums a big miss now. Some really nice people but some utter idiots, I had a feeling there was a new forum on the way, great ideas and I like your ideals. I think one rule anything that is posted stays up no matter who posts it, nothing gets deleted.
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Re: Welcome to the modern distiller

Postby the Doctor » Sat Aug 25, 2012 7:52 pm

Spud I agree ...I would only have one reservation and that would be anything of a extremely hateful nature...Racist that sort of thing... I am talking about the most extreme sort of opinions..stuff that would be out of order in society. apart from that I think that standards of behaviour would hopefully be self regulatory.
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Re: Welcome to the modern distiller

Postby Spud1700 » Sat Aug 25, 2012 8:38 pm

100% agree with the removal of racist type stuff etc, I think any silly drunken posts should stay up, it give a very good insight as to what people are really like....... (in my opinion)
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Re: Welcome to the modern distiller

Postby the Doctor » Sat Aug 25, 2012 9:39 pm

Fester you are a Pioneer so feeling like one is fully justified... discretion is a subtle art...sometimes we must protect ourselves from ourselves ...I can see how that would happen....I think that if a member asked for his or her own words to be removed ...perhaps that can be handled by self editing the post...rather than making it a moral decision for the admins... Spud the same would apply to drunken posts I wouldn't inter fear if someone edits their own post but it is not anyones job to be a censor especially for idiots... Mate its a balancing act at best...but should not be left up to one persons idea of what is right or wrong... But hopefully with input from you guys we will make a better forum, this time... lets face it we have some of the others to learn from as to what does not work...we just have to make sure we never walk down their road.
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Re: Welcome to the modern distiller

Postby the Doctor » Sun Aug 26, 2012 8:22 am

Very true Smaug...I often think that example is the best form of governance...just being what you expect of others...not being a dick...and treating others as you would be treated...It would be naive to think that this will work in all cases, however it does set the societal tone of what is expected...then we rely on the better angels of human nature ... but if someone is an utter dick head or troll ..and it does happen we have to be prepared to ban ...but that is something that I believe should not be any one persons hands...that is where the danger of power corrupting lies... the wise words " power corrupts...absolute power corrupts absolutely" are true even in humble forums. I do like Festers quote "We only have one rule here, flexibility. And even that is flexible". because it is true to our situation ...we can try to second guess what may arise...but you can bet the reality will be way weirder than we anticipated so to some extent we are going to have to be flexible...If we establish a good set of mods..we will have the brains trust to handle all situations...I dont see mods as a police force...more a parliament. any how thats my 5.2 cents worth (bloody inflation)
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Re: Welcome to the modern distiller

Postby Frank » Sun Aug 26, 2012 7:26 pm

I assume this is where to post my opinion....??? Apologies in advance if it fits better elsewhere

(IMHO)
What I would like considered, up front (ie now) is what principles/process define when a thread or post is 'bad' in relation to the forum (ie thread locked, a topic deleted, a censorship/banning determined etc)....

As personal recent webforum experience suggests, there are few (if any) clear 'rules' that can be detailed....and fair enough.
However, it is possible to post basic principles and (esp) processes that ALL members can, when joining, familiarise themselves with and agree to abide by
OR understand the mechanisms for possible change/the consequences of non conformance;

AND .....for same to be clearly and readily accessible in an appropiate forum post 'front page' on the portal.

To this end, I very much want to thank The Doctor for the insights, details and (esp) focus thus far; I am in no way trying to discount or disagree with anything already posted here and I am most willing to help what little I can in further refinement 8-)

(and I only mentioned all this because I am very hopeful and pretty convinced that this forum is going to work 'in the long haul')
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Re: Welcome to the modern distiller

Postby the Doctor » Sun Aug 26, 2012 8:06 pm

Frank I certainly would appreciate any and all help you can provide...you see this is all a bit new to me too... but it is my strongly held belief that there must be a better way... rules are one way...and have a real advantage as they are black and white...but that is also their problem... for every rule there is a pedant with a sharp pencil. who will argue till blue in the face that the law was not transgressed ...some how we need something which is usable as a guide, to all...and yet loose enough to cover all situations.... a sort of constitution or article of principles... to provide an overarching concept of what is expected... a concept that only gentlemanly behaviour (or what ever the non-sexist term would be) which would reflect positively upon the craft of distilling...and not bring the craft or website into disrepute and reflects how you yourself as a member, would like to be treated...
In terms of the processes

racism , homophobia, hate language, etc...if 3 moderators agree instant ban no dialogue will be entered into
trolling...3 warnings with 1 week suspension
being a dick to someone....warning....repeated 3 Mods to agree on action...which is to reflect the seriousness of the situation

This is not a solid proposal but a starting point for discussion.

Tell me what you think and yes by all means please do put together some concepts...I have no ego with this stuff..I just want it to be a great forum for all of us
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Re: Welcome to the modern distiller

Postby Spud1700 » Sun Aug 26, 2012 9:19 pm

Doc, I am in strong support of the three mods thing, takes it out of the hands of one person. I think Frank would be a good person to come up with a few guidelines / ideas, I think he has a pretty firm grip on these type of things :)
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Re: Welcome to the modern distiller

Postby the Doctor » Sun Aug 26, 2012 9:40 pm

I agree spud... the thing is if we can by our own actions and conduct, engender a forum where we share values as well as stories and social contact...it may sound naive but like any club , company, or group the societal attitude tends to reflect the attitude of those who set the agenda...in this case the admins, mods and we foundation members. I agree that Frank seems to engender the sort of person who could contribute to this process, in a big way... I have not announced or promoted the forum yet to give us time to have this conversation...You only get one chance at a first impression ..the more we can work out amongst this small group of trusted foundation members ...the better, and the more polished and prepared we will be when we announce the site and forum. ..If we can try and work out some protocols over the next week or two... at least to the point we can announce the forum to the greater world... I am feeling good about the software..it now seems stable .. all we need are some rules and a code of behaviour. ...my new video on making Single Malt Ep 2 will be ready to launch this week some time...It will be a good opportunity to promote... any way it is good that we are having this conversation...
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Re: Welcome to the modern distiller

Postby the Doctor » Mon Aug 27, 2012 4:41 am

HEAR HEAR! ....Fester you speak with the wisdom of an elder statesman...I do not have any objection to any or all of your proposals...lets see what members want and I will draught a constitution and make it available for comment...brilliant stuff..to be really fair it is good that this come from the members and not be a dictate from me...so I really appreciate your input...as for the inmates running the asylum ...I will in my role as caretaker ...keep a fair but strong hand on the tiller, as we find our feet...I don't know about you, but I think this is exciting and the idea merits being given a chance to flourish or die.
Please others contribute to this conversation ...this is your forum...the moderators , mentors and administrators are there to serve you and your collective interests...but we can only achieve that with your input...long live the revolution!

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Re: Welcome to the modern distiller

Postby the Doctor » Mon Aug 27, 2012 8:52 am

Well said Punkin... The role of founder is not one you can rescind...So I will always be in the background as a failsafe...that is virtually unavoidable as the forum is hosted on a server I pay for... Having said that ,I am making a promise to not exercise the power of founder during the term of a president..unless a vote of no confidence were to rise from a significant number of mods...think of my role as that of a chairman or symbolic head...the president will be the person who is the Managing director and have the guiding power for the forum. the only power that I would have is that of the governor general has in Australian politics...the role is that of failsafe...given any but the most extreme circumstances not to be exercised...This forum grew out of a response to Airstill attacking me for no reason...I just want a mature place to hang out and talk about my hobby with like minded people, and was on holidays so had the time to build a forum...I have no yearning for the power of being an admin. so am happy to step back when we have a president, and do what I love best, distilling and chewing the fat with mates... I hope this makes sense... I agree with your observation of Pintoshine... I think his rules show a maturity and respect for the intelligence of his members... it is a good model...I would like a constitution of what the intent of the forum is..so that if we lose our way over time ...we can reflect on the path we started on...I think there is nobility in the idea of rotating governance...it may be a bit utopian ...but I can't see why it will not work... it is great to have you here Punkin...as someone who has contributed more to the conversation of distilling than any other person I know, it is reassuring that you have chosen to be with us...you contributed over 2000 posts to Aussie D. I don't think there would be a member here who doesn't owe a fair swipe of their knowledge to your posts...enjoy your stay here. you are now amongst friends.
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Re: Welcome to the modern distiller

Postby scarecrow » Mon Aug 27, 2012 1:15 pm

One of the hardest things to contend with on forums is the inability to interpret humor from the written word. What is written may not be what was said. Human nature being what it is will see egos bruised, toes trodden on and in some cases, we will see the "real me" suddenly erupt.

Anonymity is such a wonderful concept. Everybody has the chance to be a keyboard samurai.

It will be a mark of this forum as to how these situations are handled. Spraying 4 letter vulgarities on a public forum is a quick fix, but forums are just that, public. I don't see a need for it and it lowers the standard of what we are trying to achieve.

I personally want this forum to be everything the others aren't.

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Re: Welcome to the modern distiller

Postby Maheel » Mon Aug 27, 2012 1:35 pm

i agree with Punkin mods need to be able to get on with it.

A mod needs to be able to just "move something" if they feel they need to and not "wait" for another mod or mods to agree.
otherwise it can get out of hand if it tooks hours for another to log in etc.

it can always be put back, but that can also cause drama.. with the "why was my post modded" issue

most who mod on forums do it with a fair amount of self policing and don't get power crazy. it's a fine line between mod it or not....

if MD has a "set of rules" then mods should just work "within" those rules but there is always going to be issues around what 1 mod interprets to another.

some fourms have a "report post" button where i assume it goes to a LOG?, i am not sure if it helps but then general members help alert to spam / rubbish etc

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Re: Welcome to the modern distiller

Postby the Doctor » Mon Aug 27, 2012 7:23 pm

I hear you Maheel... I think that in all cases we have to use a certain amount of common sense...what I have proposed is, just that a proposal...nothing more...it is this feed back that will determine what will happen more than my musings...I will give you some feedback as to my situation...recently I released a simple instructional video. I was attacked by an admin on a forum then monstered by two other mods...I was attacked in posts then denied any recourse as my posts were deleted ...the act of cowards it was...tie a man to a chair then beat him up ...this forum is a response to that incident...all I want to achieve is a forum where any fair minded person can express themselves without having to worry what side of the bed the admin or mods got up on that day...I take heart from the British forum..
Still Smart which is a friendly and supportive forum which seems to have transcended the demise into bitchiness which afflicts so many others...there are two ways of going with the forum rules...we cross the "t"s and dot the "i"s by having as many rules as we can to cover as many possible outcomes as possible. Or we draft a constitution which encapsulates the intent of the members and the aims and responsibilities of those members, in a more general way...I am erring towards the idea of a constitution...firstly if we draft a thousand rules ...it is human nature to look for the way to get around rules...if we insist on a standard of behaviour and maintain that in all cases so that the standards expected from members are self evident...hopefully the forum will be largely self policing....In a perfect world this would be the best of outcomes....I am not so utopian as to think we will ever live in a perfect world...but maybe ...just maybe there are enough people out there who have seen what can happen when a forum goes wrong...to want this time to be different. We have not yet announced the forum to the greater internet populace...but people are finding out about it organically...so this must be sorted out sooner rather than later... I am keen for a constitution and rules in the form of guidelines for mods. This is an oportunity for us to get this right...Please let me know what you think.
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Re: Welcome to the modern distiller

Postby the Doctor » Mon Aug 27, 2012 7:56 pm

Fester wrote:I feel like Thomas Jefferson or Ben Franklin helping to create a new democracy.
I can dream, can't I?

Everything sounds fair and reasonable. I agree so completely.

But I can tell you that members will ask for a silly, drunken remark to be removed. That request is usually by the author.
As for hurtful, racist, or profane posts... I'd hope the management culls those quickly and gives the member a warning.

I would hope this is not another 'boy's club' but a place where anyone and everyone is welcome.

seeing you feel like Ben Franklin...here have a beer!
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Re: Welcome to the modern distiller

Postby Frank » Mon Aug 27, 2012 8:27 pm

Wonderful thread ....more quality ideas just here than MANY other entire forums....
Esp. +1 on the consideration of membership voting for the mentors etc and for anything that keeps this forum progressive (ie continous advancement towards a more desireable form).

In addition, I am of the opinion that the 'executive' would be best served by having representatives from the following distiller forum 'minority groups' in the mix
Women (for moderation, understanding, creativity etc more in keeping with a true societal mode but also to provide this forum with lasting niche potential in terms of membership and member inclusiveness)
Noobies....or those slightly advanced from Noobies, whatever that term is (for the capacity to freshly 'understand'/ clearly recall the feelings of impatience, confusion and fear that come from this hobby...at the start of the learning curve anyway)
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Re: Welcome to the modern distiller

Postby stubbydrainer » Mon Aug 27, 2012 10:22 pm

awesomeness is the word for here ,
I have a good feeling about this forum, I agree with the discussion sentiment
thrashing this out early in the piece is the way to go,
there are pro' and cons to everything , but the pro's are rampant here
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Re: Welcome to the modern distiller

Postby the Doctor » Mon Aug 27, 2012 11:05 pm

This is great ...I am already starting to be able to pre-visualise the model we are forming... this thread will run for a few more days, before I have to get a constitution drafted...so please add to it...from these comments and those in other threads, PM's and emails I will draft that document...I will then place it up for comment and if there are not too many changes that require debate..we can try to get it ratified and on the forum for all new members to see....I am releasing a new video (episode2 of the single malt training vid) it should be out on you tube by tomorrow night.but will not be announced until about Thursday (when I have it up I will put a link here first) I have not mentioned the forum on the video ..but..it includes a promo for the website which of course is a portal to here...last video got about 650 hits in 2 days so I expect a fair influx of new members around next weekend.
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Re: Welcome to the modern distiller

Postby Tracker » Mon Sep 03, 2012 11:12 pm

I have a warm fuzzy feeling in the pit of my stomach from reading this thread.
Hope everything goes according to plan.


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Re: Welcome to the modern distiller

Postby Aidanmac » Tue Sep 04, 2012 5:01 am

I'm reading everything here and heartily agree with what appears to be a growing consensus.

Rules, Yes! Simplicity, Absolutely! Democracy, Iffy! Republic, Better! Inclusivity, Definitely!

I've been on many other distiller forums and walked away from all but one where I intend to keep up with my friends. It's a nice, friendly forum and I would suggest the establishment of "Diplomatic Relations" if you will, as there are many like-minded people there and being in the other side of the planet there are different perspectives, different cultural emphasis and practice. This could lead to useful contact for members travelling to AUS/NZ from EU and Vice-Versa. ;) (This does not mean you can all come and stay in my house) :lol: :lol: :lol:

On the issue of Mods moving/deleting posts. In principle, I agree. Clearly offensive materials/posts should be removed without hesitation following agreement of two Mods (min) that the material should be removed. This will ensure that no Mod can be accused of bias or inappropriate use of authority. The originator should also have the right of appeal to at least two uninvolved Mods who's decision on the matter would be final and binding.

Also, and in the spirit of a republic, the intention to move or delete a post that is not directly and clearly offensive and covered by the two Mods rule above , e.g. an insensitive comment intended as a joke, should be notified to the originator who should, within a fair timeframe, have a right to be heard before the action is taken. I propose this on the basis that one man's meat is another man's roadkill... 8-)

Roll on Rolling out, I'm with you all the way.

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Re: Welcome to the modern distiller

Postby YHB » Tue Sep 04, 2012 6:02 am

May I add one more topic for possible inclusion in the moderator’s power, and that is where a person making the post is inadvertently putting him or herself in a position of possible self harm.

An example of this would be where someone includes information that would make identification of themselves, family or the location of there home possible. This could be a photograph of their vehicle with the registration number clearly visible, or the inclusion of electronic data buried within a picture file.

In this instance I believe that a moderator should have the power to protect the individual’s privacy.

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Re: Welcome to the modern distiller

Postby crozdog » Thu Sep 06, 2012 8:55 am

Hi,

This is an interesting topic. One thing I see on a daily basis that causes all sorts of issues is unclear roles and responsibilities. if the Il presidente is to be rotated, it should be clear as to what that person does - just like moderators. Posters too should know what they can/can't do e.g. only able to edit a message for 15 minutes (as an example).

To assist the development of the guidebook, here is a link to the Aussiehomebrewer posting and moderation guidelines. http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/i ... &f=11&id=1

I have seem people refered to it on more than 1 time - not just by mods - members have pulled up other members if they were getting out of line.

Just thought it may help

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Re: Welcome to the modern distiller

Postby Frank » Thu Sep 06, 2012 3:59 pm

+1
thanx crozdog....
IMHO its a good thing to clearly define what can be expected etc; and there's a few 'extra bits' on the link that could probably stand consideration/be incorporated for this forum (not too sure about rule No3 though ;) )
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Re: Welcome to the modern distiller

Postby Aidanmac » Sat Sep 08, 2012 5:13 am

Good fences make good neigbours and then Good Neighbours become good friends. :o

...eh! sorry about that...I can resist anything except temptation! :lol: :lol: :lol:

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Re: Welcome to the modern distiller

Postby scarecrow » Sat Sep 08, 2012 9:01 am

Fester wrote:New mods should be nominated by the Admin, President or Vice President and approved by simple majority vote of the moderators.
A mod can be removed by the same process.

Mentors should be nominated by Admin, President, Vice President or mod and approved by simple mod majority vote.

This process should be done behind the scenes by those involved.
The nominee(s) reserve the right of refusal for whatever reasons eg time constraints, illness etc
Elected officials have the right to step down if and when they want.

YHB wrote:...... a moderator should have the power to protect the individual’s privacy.

Good call mate. I have seen photos where number plates can be clearly seen or an image of the distiller is visible in a reflection.

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Re: Welcome to the modern distiller

Postby the Doctor » Sat Sep 15, 2012 6:39 am

PS Could someone turn the "Notify me when a reply is posted" to ON by default?


Ive got the notify reference and will get it sorted.

Hi minime we are honoured to have you join our ragtag gang of rascals... you are legend...your knowledge and experience will enrich our board and add a lot to the conversation.
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Re: Welcome to the modern distiller

Postby stubbydrainer » Sat Sep 15, 2012 8:46 am

welcome Minime
its is great to have another legend here to add to the mix
I get excited when I dilute my spirits to 40% ABV...... It means I get more to drink more often
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Re: Welcome to the modern distiller

Postby the Doctor » Sat Sep 15, 2012 10:57 pm

mini me I have looked into your request for reply notification...it seems it requires me to add code to the core software...I have tried this before and crashed the board requiring a total re start...I am hoping I can find someone who has more IT experience than me to help, so am not ignoring you ...it is a valid request..but need some help with this one... as I always say " I may be slow...but I'm not very good" one day I'll learn to drive this thing properly. :oops:
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Re: Welcome to the modern distiller

Postby the Doctor » Mon Sep 17, 2012 10:42 pm

I am on to it Fes'...Ill see what can be done...emails use very little space on the server so I think we can afford to allocate more room ...I'll get back to you once rectified.
Doc

P.s. try selecting the type in the PM and simply copy it into a word document you keep on your hard drive..I think this should work for long term archiving.
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Re: Welcome to the modern distiller

Postby the Doctor » Mon Sep 17, 2012 10:54 pm

PM mailboxes have been quadrupled in size for all members... also be aware you have up to 10 separate folders can be created...this helps to organise the information...One hint that i use is when I receive a short PM which is not one I will want to archive..I tick it straight away, whilst fresh in my mind ...then it is easy, to delete all the little notes that are not necessarily archive material...I hope this helps ..
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Re: Welcome to the modern distiller

Postby the Doctor » Sun Sep 30, 2012 11:44 am

minime wrote:
GTH wrote:In my short reading time so far I have seen two pictures so far that I think are in poor taste and I don't believe it's the sort of thing you want here? It's not the sort of thing I want to see here.

Whenever you come across something you think is offensive just hit the exclamation mark above the post (Report this Post Button). You'll have the opportunity to describe what you find offensive and it will be reviewed and discussed by the mods. I won't promise you'll have your way because what's offensive to some is completely innocent to others but it will get our attention. This is an adult forum however and some level of insolent behavior is expected and dare I say sometimes encouraged......... In all instances it should be with a respectful or humorous tone...........


Thanks Mini + 1 to that ...I try to get on the forum at least 4 times a day for a few minutes to check for inappropriate posts and spam, so if flagged I will delete as necessary.
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Re: Welcome to the modern distiller

Postby Prairiepiss » Sat Oct 06, 2012 8:09 pm

I think it a noble thing you are trying to do with this forum. And I commend you for it.

I would like to point out a few things that I have come across elsewhere.

Those that are placed in a higher position often are seen as someone with power. So their every word is scrutinized. By the general membership. Not trying to say all of them. Just saying it happens. And as most of you already know. One wrong word can set a chain reaction off. I've gotten more then enough PMs from upset members. With lovely words in them. Just because they took my words completely the wrong way. And for things I didn't even do. But since they dint like a comment of mine at some point. So they blamed me. And got anyone they thought could do something about it involved.

I guess what I'm trying to say is. We all are human. Well at least I hope so. But we all have good days and bad days. Our words don't always show up on the screen as we wanted them to. And others don't always read them as we intended them to. So there also needs to be checks and balances to cover and or protect those of you in the spotlight positions. They would also need to expose the ones that truly deserve it.

Another thing that I see happen on every forum I'm on. Not just the distilling ones. There is always one mod that is like the bouncer. The cleanup man. Whatever you want to call them. And its not always a bad thing. When dealing with the general public you almost have to have a sergeant at arms so to speak. I would hope you wouldn't need one. But most of the time you do. If there are any rules in place. Trying to spread it out amongst your selves would be the best option. But that doesn't always work. Or isn't always as effective.

I like the idea of the El Presidente only holding 2 terms consecutive. But what about later down the road. At a point when the new members didn't even know that member held office. And they were nominated again? And they are a good candidate. I propose that they can only hold the position for 2 consecutive terms. But after maybe 10 to 20 terms they would be eligible for that position again. You never know what mite happen between now and 10 years down the road.

I like the idea of the mentors being nominated and voted in by the general membership. I think that would be the best. Because they would know best. But the problem I do see with that is. Some members that would be great mentors. Don't always want to be in the spotlight. And a public nomination voting process may make them real uncomfortable. And quite possibly run them off. Some are that way when it comes to this hobby. I think if you could come up with some kind of nomination drop box. Where the names were not made public until that person gave consent behind the scenes to do so. It mite be for the best. I would also suggest you do the mentors in like a rotation lineup. So that when a new one comes on board you still have some in place. To give the forums some continuity. And to get acquainted with the new one.

Sory you will find I tend to ramble a lot.
That's my two nickles. Just something for you to think about.
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Re: Welcome to the modern distiller

Postby the Doctor » Sat Oct 06, 2012 10:13 pm

Thank you Prairie for your considered and thoughtful contribution... I guess that what we have created is a social experiment, and is not immune to the trials that have befallen the other forums...we may be feeling our way through this, but it is not blindly. I rely on those of experience such as yourself to contribute and help to build this society. we have been blessed with a mature and very experienced membership...that is a very fortunate thing, as I believe that peer to peer pressure will help to maintain the respectful and pleasant environment we have created. that is not to say that strong enforcement will be required along the way...and I do not ever shrink from that responsibility...it is more a case of not trying to set in place so many rules and regulations, that it takes away from the individual members the responsibility to act in an adult and mature way, applying the normal societal pre requisite codes of conduct...The constitution is a very considered document which states all that is required of a member and not a word more...The forum holds itself to a high, but not unreasonable standard, which reflects the way most if not all of us would like to be treated...it is beholden on members to simply treat those they have contact with here with the respect they themselves would desire...I may be wrong...and if I am we will put in place the rules necessary...but if I am right we have something truly different here...a forum of like minded and differing individuals able to meet without fear of flames or trolling, be they newbies or seasoned old salts...lets give it a go...we always have plan "B" but I really hope this works...so far I have found this to be an extraordinary meeting of minds. thanks again for your input, I hear you and consider your input important...I am just asking for some time to see if this will work...and so far so good.
Take care
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Re: Welcome to the modern distiller

Postby Prairiepiss » Sat Oct 06, 2012 11:51 pm

Doc hope you didnt take my post as saying its not going to work out. I hope it does.

I have learned from our leader, The Doctor, that he feels "Rules" should be exchanged for "Adult conduct". I agree. It is a difficult concept at first but once I understood it simply meant that if your 11 year old daughter could read your post then how could it possibly be wrong?


I wish that adult conduct would prevail everywhere. Not just here.

The problem with your daughter statement. Some think its perfectly fine to talk worse then a bunch of drunken sailors in front of their young kids. My neighbor seams to think its ok for her 5 year old to call her things I don't say in front of my biker buddies. I mean bad stuff. It's all I can do not to go over and smack every one of them for allowing it.

I'm no angel. Never have been probably never will be. But I try to keep it to a minimum. Some people just can't. It's those I foresee a problem with. But hopefully you will be able to maintain what your after.

You guys have a lot more faith in the general public then I ever will.
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Re: Welcome to the modern distiller

Postby rubber duck » Sun Oct 07, 2012 12:38 am

I agree with Prairie on this, what we have here is a forum full of like minded people. A bunch of folks involved in a hobby that is considered a little edgy by the general public and illegal in most places but we don't care, we're going to do it anyhow. Now you take a group like that and mix a pint of booze into the equation and your bound to have some problems. How the administration deals with those problems will decide where this forum goes.

I think that rotating the administration is a good idea, if your nominated you don't have to take it. If you do take it you can resign. If you can't take the heat stay the hell away from the fire, that's exactly what I'm doing.
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Re: Welcome to the modern distiller

Postby rubber duck » Sun Oct 07, 2012 3:01 am

One thing I'd like to see on this forum is a vendor feedback and review section that the vendors stay out of and don't post on.

If a vendor is offering a quality product and has a good reputation they shouldn't need to post there. If they're selling junk or ripping folks off the membership will take care of them.
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Re: Welcome to the modern distiller

Postby the Doctor » Sun Oct 07, 2012 10:21 am

I have been allowing this topic to develop without further comment, as sometimes I think it better to listen than speak...all of your concerns are valid and are or have been considered...I think that it is worth pointing out that by taking the path we have ...we have not foregone the powers that the software has given us to police the forum...it is simply that we do not use it as a threat...I believe nothing inspires revolt like being threatened...the Buddhist saying "walk quietly.....but carry a big stick" comes to mind. Let the populace live in peace and they will become a part of the answer...and not the problem...I have way too much respect for my fellow members to ever treat them as children...it is their forum not mine...I am simply the founder. I have by guidance tried to make it obvious to all that a respectful community is preferable to one built on ego....I know problems will arise...they always do...but handling those problems decisively and swiftly is not something I back away from. In my previous career I used to drive teams of over 100 people to perform seemingly impossible tasks in seemingly impossible time frames often spending up to tens of millions of dollars of my clients money...I learn't that people treated with respect, acknowledged for their contributions are far happier and are better able to contribute, than the brow-beaten. It is human nature to question things...and is to be encouraged...after all anything else is the realm of sheep, so I am in no way discouraging the healthy debate about what this forum represents or our method of governance...only if we question, can we ultimately get this right. I do however believe that there is a better model out there for a forum...it is not for everyone. but is an alternative to the many other forums which are so prescriptive in their rules. I carry a big stick, but promise that it is not there to stroke my ego...it is a fail-safe, back up for if things get de-railed.
One of the most inspired sayings I have ever known hangs proudly in my winery, it is an old saying from the Burgundy region it is......." Sometimes one has to have the courage to do nothing" it is in reference to wine...but is easily just applicable to life...I may be a gardener, but given time a tree will grow without me...and a beautiful tree it will be.
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Re: Welcome to the modern distiller

Postby rubber duck » Sun Oct 07, 2012 11:55 am

punkin wrote:
rubber duck wrote:One thing I'd like to see on this forum is a vendor feedback and review section that the vendors stay out of and don't post on.

If a vendor is offering a quality product and has a good reputation they shouldn't need to post there. If they're selling junk or ripping folks off the membership will take care of them.


viewtopic.php?f=41&t=271

I hope you think it's OK for a vendor to say thanks for the compliment?


Well ya that's fine.

Listen Punkin I've purchased some stuff from still dragon and I'm so happy with it I've sent a few folks looking for stills over to the site. I'm sure that you guys will never have complaint that isn't addressed. You know the kind of vendor that I'm talking about. I think it's great to have a high quality vendor selling quality equipment out there to serve the distilling community, but there are some bottom feeders and more will follow as this hobby grows.

Now would be a great time to set up a dedicated forum section,(not just thread) for reviews of all vendors advertising on the site. That way we can flame the hell out of the junk dealers without them getting involved, and make them slink away.

It's just a thought.
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Re: Welcome to the modern distiller

Postby chill » Sun Oct 07, 2012 1:01 pm

GTH wrote:I think a vendor has a right to reply to all comments be them positive or negative. If a vendor can't comment how can they defend themselves against what might be an unjustified comment or if they so choose try and rectify a situation where they feel to do so.


Well said! I think that vendors need to be able to respond to comments. There are two sides to every story. Let us hear both.


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Re: Welcome to the modern distiller

Postby stubbydrainer » Sun Oct 07, 2012 1:46 pm

+1 chill
I get excited when I dilute my spirits to 40% ABV...... It means I get more to drink more often
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Re: Welcome to the modern distiller

Postby rubber duck » Sun Oct 07, 2012 4:11 pm

Maybe they deserve the chance to reply maybe they don't.

This right here is the kind of asshole that I'm talking about. http://puredistillingusa.com

I'm sick and tired of new guys getting screwed.

If the consensus is to let the vendor have their say then ok, but lets have a dedicated forum section to take the gloves off.
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Re: Welcome to the modern distiller

Postby the Doctor » Sun Oct 07, 2012 4:39 pm

I hear you Rubber Duck...we have a quorum of mature like minded members many of who have been around long enough to provide balanced guidance to any newbies to the hobby...I think it important to look to the constitution for guidance...it states :membership is not a given...it is a valued gift, endowed by your peers by virtue of their communion in this place....if we at any time decide that a person or persons be not representative of the constitution and its intent...we can decide to disallow that person...the constitution also states that : the articles presented in this document are a statement of what we as a group represent...if for any reason you do not find agreement with these principles.. do not proceed further..as you subsequent removal from the forum may cause you embarrassment... membership is not a given....the important statement here is that membership is not a given...it is not a right...it is an honour bestowed by the members...that includes my own membership. I do not for one second think that I could without the agreement and goodwill of the members run a successful forum...it would be awfully lonely being the only member. If any of us see's a member or potential member as a direct threat to all we hold to be dear, notify the moderators or administration...we are not the police...however we can monitor and provide guidance. And in rare cases, intervene and if necessary ban a member. As for taking the gloves off...there is no need, we have the ways and means to protect our members without resorting to personal attacks...The first is to provide help and well thought out assistance to new distillers in the hope that we can save them from the charlatans and sharks. There will always be people who will try and skin new distillers with gear that does not do what it say's on the box...they are like spam..every time you think you are safe another one arrives. but we can beat them by the best way possible, by harnessing the knowledge we possess as a group.
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Re: Welcome to the modern distiller

Postby lokibrew » Wed Oct 10, 2012 9:57 am

Right now? I want a different UI theme. I know it sounds silly, but with all the phpBB forums out there I have to double check which site I'm reading, and if I should hate plastic, or berate newcomers, or delete commercial posts
It's getting to be a lot of work keeping track

Can we have a red theme?


Only half serious. On a serious note, I like how this has started and look forward to its evolution
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Re: Welcome to the modern distiller

Postby the Doctor » Wed Oct 10, 2012 11:14 am

Thank you Loki... As a admin Newbie I tried to change the look on two occasions and made a complete botch of it...so now I am a bit gun shy about changing the code...I hope that one day a real IT expert will join so we can play with such things...Take care
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