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Offset Thumper mounted column

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Offset Thumper mounted column

Postby myles » Mon Jun 24, 2013 9:01 pm

I am building a thumper mounted 3" SPP filled column for someone. I have started preparing the 30 litre keg that is going to be the thumper for the 100 litre keg boiler.

30 litre thumper.png


Because it is going under a column it needs an overflow if you were going to run a full boiler charge of 70 litres - and were prepared for a LONG run time :lol:

However, there are a few configuration options. This would be a conventional approach.

keg thumper5.png


But it would also be possible to do this:

keg thumper4.png


What do you think? Try to leave the top dome clean with just the column attachment and re-locate the overflow and vapour inlet into the lower dome out of view?
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Re: Offset Thumper mounted column

Postby myles » Mon Jun 24, 2013 9:50 pm

Do you think this would work?

keg thumper6.png


Inspired by

offset column.png
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Re: Offset Thumper mounted column

Postby emptyglass » Mon Jun 24, 2013 9:56 pm

Cant see why they wont work Miles, good idea.
I'm a bit of a traditionalist, so I'd go the first one, but no reason why the others won't work that I can see.
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Re: Offset Thumper mounted column

Postby Snapperhead » Wed Jun 26, 2013 7:05 am

I have a question, Will the fluid level back pressure in the thumper affect how this will work on the second 2 designs ? By this I mean, in the traditional first one, there is little or no fluid back pressure, and the vapour can easily (relatively) push its way down into the charge, the second 2 will have more back pressure to force through before it can release into the thumper. The second 2 seem to have a lot more head pressure for the boiler vapour to overcome. They are going to be quite large releases in pressure each time the boiler builds up enough pressure to push the liquid clear of the feed pipe into the thumper. My inexperienced 2 cents
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Re: Offset Thumper mounted column

Postby Snapperhead » Wed Jun 26, 2013 7:21 am

Sorry for butchering your nice drawings Myles, I am not great with MS paint

But this is what I am referring to, Fluid pressure for vapour to overcome, lots of small discharges in pressure
keg thumper5.png


More fluid volume and back pressure to overcome, less frequent but large releases in pressure
keg thumper4.png


Again, sorry for hacking up your nice pics
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Re: Offset Thumper mounted column

Postby myles » Wed Jun 26, 2013 7:42 am

I think the answer is NO not really.

thumpers.png


In both cases the liquid level will settle in the vapour tube to the same level before the vapour starts to push. There is minimal displacement difference - probably just an inch or two. Low level steam injectors are commonly used for tank heating so I don't think it is a big issue.

From my point of view there are 2 issues here,

1st is purely cosmetic, vapour inlet in the dome or out of view in the lower skirt.
2nd is just the number of holes to cut in the keg.

Both are easily fixable either way. Was just wondering what other folks felt about it.
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Re: Offset Thumper mounted column

Postby midwest shiner » Tue Jul 02, 2013 10:45 am

I can definitely see how you were inspired by that design, holy hell that's some seriously beautiful metal there. I'd say you're definitely right that its purely an aesthetic issue and my first response would be to ask the person it's being built for which they would prefer and if they don't know or don't care either way then decide which way to go. If I were building and had to choose 1(not that my metalworking skills are anywhere near what yours are Myles) I would go with whichever is easiest as long as you're not sacrificing aesthetic beauty for ease that is. So I'd say go for the thumper input on the bottom, its easier since you have less holes to drill that way and I think it'd look nicer too being more out of sight, but that's just IMHO
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Re: Offset Thumper mounted column

Postby myles » Wed Jul 10, 2013 10:39 am

I now have 4 height adjustable legs on the thumper. In the end I went for a 1" vapour inlet in the top dome, a 3/4" drain that goes into a 1/2" gate valve, and a 1/2" overflow. Both drain and overflow are in the lower dome, independently through their own holes - it was easier to do it that way.

The 1" vapour tube can be removed for cleaning. I also put a T into the vapour tube, vapour in through the 90 degree branch, with the upper (in-line) reduced down to a 3/4" gate valve that will be topped with a copper funnel. Both for cleaning and for pre-charging the thumper with liquid.

No welding involved. The keg connections are all bulkhead compression fittings and the legs are 10 mm x 200 mm coach bolts. The legs are fitted using heavy duty baseboard brackets bolted to the skirt with 4 x 5 mm bolts on each bracket.

Cutting the holes and drilling the skirt is easy as I now know the correct technique. Set the drill to its slowest speed and use water to both cool and lubricate. Titanium coated drill bit and a coarse tooth bi-metal hole saw. Pictures to follow.
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Re: Offset Thumper mounted column

Postby myles » Wed Jul 10, 2013 10:08 pm

Top mounted vapour inlet and refill valve.

30 litre thumper 2.png


Central drain and overflow ports

30 litre thumper 3.png


And adjustable legs

30 litre thumper 4.png
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Re: Offset Thumper mounted column

Postby myles » Thu Jul 11, 2013 6:46 am

Top view

30 litre thumper 5.png
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Re: Offset Thumper mounted column

Postby cacticlayton » Sun Jul 14, 2013 3:26 am

Neat idea, I'll be watching this one play out. Keep it up Myles, you do great work.
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Re: Offset Thumper mounted column

Postby myles » Sat Oct 05, 2013 10:24 am

Another stage closer. The pot still now has a 7 tube product condenser and I am configuring the heights so I can build the column to fit the ceiling height.

MN still1.jpg


The column VM/LM head is nearly done, the offset tube and shell condenser worked out just fine. I have a big VM valve to help balance out the weight of the reflux condenser.

MN cond3.jpg


All the coolant connectors and the thermo port were threaded into the copper and then silver soldered with high silver content solder. The new hose connected propane torch really does work very well indeed. I haven't even needed to use the bigger burner that I bought. 560 deg C in 2" copper - no problem :grin:
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Re: Offset Thumper mounted column

Postby just sayin' » Sat Oct 05, 2013 1:45 pm

Beautiful work, Myles, as always. Always learn something from your posts. What size tubes did you use in your product condenser, 1/2" ID? Thanks much!................Just Sayin'
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Re: Offset Thumper mounted column

Postby Spud1700 » Sat Oct 05, 2013 5:41 pm

Hey Mate looks good, one question though, how stable are those legs? Do you get much movement with them?
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Re: Offset Thumper mounted column

Postby myles » Sat Oct 05, 2013 9:21 pm

The legs are rock solid. 12 mm coach bolts with the load directly vertical. These would be no use with castors but for fixed loads they are fine. In use as height adjusters the legs have a load capacity of 500kg EACH. They would not be suitable if you were going to move the boiler around, but it has been designed for a static application with drain and refill in situ.

That product shotgun uses 12 mm tubes each 500 mm long.

MN product cond1.jpg


MN prod cond2.jpg
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Re: Offset Thumper mounted column

Postby Kapea » Sun Oct 06, 2013 5:14 am

I love the handles, cutting and polishing job on your thumper top. Makes me look at my keg/boiler in a new light. Should I, or shouldn't I... hmmmm...

Very nice work Myles. :handgestures-thumbupright:
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Re: Offset Thumper mounted column

Postby myles » Sun Oct 06, 2013 9:14 am

Kapea, my own pot still is in storage, but it is destined for a makeover. It will be getting the legs and top ring removal treatment. The handles will be left for convenience, but the top dome will get polished.
I did think about cutting out the neck and fitting a 3" fitting, but am not sure if it is actually required. I do however wish to fit a pressure safety valve and refill port directly into the top dome. A boiler level tube addition in platinum cured silicone also seems a possibility.
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Re: Offset Thumper mounted column

Postby myles » Tue Oct 08, 2013 12:14 am

Here is the VM / LM head.

MN VM LM head2.jpg


MN VM LM head1.jpg


3" column into 2" connector. 1.4" vapour splitting T with full bore VM valve and entry into reflux condenser. I like the look of the brass ferrules with the copper tube.

MN head brass ferrules.jpg


And the polished up VM valve.

MN VM valve.jpg


Just need to add a valve to the LM side and she is good to go. :smile:
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Re: Offset Thumper mounted column

Postby myles » Thu Nov 21, 2013 6:11 am

I put this together for a dry run and you know something - I just was not happy with the way she looked. The condenser on the pot still was too low for convenient use.

So I got out the tube cutter and cut the riser in half, then added in another section. The two product condensers are now about the same level.

This is just a taster:

MN Still3.jpg


The top port on the 3 way valve is for the thumper, the bottom one for the pot still product condenser. A flick of the 3 way to divert the vapour, plus a few changes to coolant valves and you have switched from pot still to vodka column. I should be able to set the 2 product condensers to use the same parrot. :smile:
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Re: Offset Thumper mounted column

Postby myles » Mon Nov 25, 2013 6:45 am

With both condensers fitted It is starting to come together. I shifted them both forwards a few inches so the thumper vapour path can have an easy run parallel to the column.

MN still4.jpg


That's a 7 core shotgun on the pot still and a 2 core concentric liebig on the column.
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