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About classic 8 Turbo Yeast

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About classic 8 Turbo Yeast

Postby willowbark » Wed Jul 29, 2015 5:18 pm

Hi,
Today a guy told me not to stir in the yeast, just sprinkle it on top and let it be.
I have always stirred it through.
Can any one shed some light on that particular problem.
Also he said to put the carbon in before the yeast and stir that in.
The temperature he said before i add the yeast should be 30 degrees.
Regards willowbark.
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Re: About classic 8 Turbo Yeast

Postby Otago Elvis » Wed Jul 29, 2015 6:00 pm

Hi Willowbark,

I'm not familiar with the turbo yeasts. However, i can't imagine they are different to bakers, champagne, ec etc that i use.

I have only ever tossed it in and let it take care of itself. So i can't see why your yeast would be any different.

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Re: About classic 8 Turbo Yeast

Postby Maheel » Wed Jul 29, 2015 8:12 pm

i reckon either way would work as the yeast will still re-hydrate
i am a stirrer plenty of beer guys just sprinkle in

did he have a reason fro not stiring or just reckons you should ?

30 is warm but a pretty normal type of temp for when your mixing up, depends on the yeast i the end and it's recommended "temp range"

IMO carbon in the wash is a gimmick, it would fill with crap and there would still be plenty crap in the wash (but i could very well be wrong)

# i dont like turbo's but it's been 10 years since i used one...
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Re: About classic 8 Turbo Yeast

Postby willowbark » Thu Jul 30, 2015 7:13 pm

Hi Maheel,Otago,
Well in the past i have stirred in the yeast.
But i have been having a lot of trouble with my washes lately.
I have been doing nothing different.
I told the brew shop guy how i start my washes, firstly add some cold water, then pour in a bag of sugar, then i pour in a couple of boiling jugs of water, and sugar and water again.
I use 8 kiloes of white sugar.
He said no only use hot water at first to disolve sugar and keep my temp at 30 degrees until i add the yeast.
I have been keeping my water luke warm in the past, before i add the yeast.
I threw out the last batch again, and gave the fermenters a clean with a bleach solution, and then scalded them out.
Hope next time i get somewhere.
Regards willowbark.
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Re: About classic 8 Turbo Yeast

Postby Otago Elvis » Thu Jul 30, 2015 7:23 pm

Are you using a reflux still?

Chasing a neutral spirit?

If so why not have a go at a Tomato Paste Wash/ Birdwatchers?

I'm pretty sure the recipe is in the %100 Proven recipe section.

It's cleaner and cheaper than a Turbo wash and it's basically foolproof :handgestures-thumbupright:

EDIT: Here it is TPW Recipe
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Re: About classic 8 Turbo Yeast

Postby bigfoot » Fri Aug 28, 2015 10:22 am

I have read a fair amount of negative stuff re turbos and I have shied away from them based on readings. That being said, I've tasted some rather nice product made from turbos so this weekend I am finally doing the comparison I always wanted to do.
I am running 25 litres of tpw and then 25 litres of turbo (as per recipe) completely separate through a boka and then taking cuts and see just how much of a difference there really is for myself.

Bf
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Re: About classic 8 Turbo Yeast

Postby bigfoot » Sat Aug 29, 2015 7:15 pm

The start of my tpw vs turbo experiment.
Pulled 5 litres and kept about 3 of tpw.
Turbo is clearing as we speak...
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Re: About classic 8 Turbo Yeast

Postby the Doctor » Sat Aug 29, 2015 11:25 pm

There is no argument as to the value of turbo yeasts V/s the more common distillers yeasts... turbo yeasts were bred to maximise the return on the industrial distillation of fuel ethanol...it is designed to utilise all starch and sugars without any concern for quality beyond it's fuel value....It makes crap...if you believe that you can make better spirits with turbo yeasts...then why are they never used in a the manufacture of commercial spirits, there is a clear economic advantage, and yet they are not used...that is because they make poor quality spirits... In short there is no argument for using these yeasts beyond simple greed... if you are compelled to maximise your returns at the expense of your bodies renal system and you are happy about drinking poisons (congeners) then go ahead and use Turbo yeasts...but you will get no respect here, you are not a distiller of quality.
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Re: About classic 8 Turbo Yeast

Postby bigfoot » Sun Aug 30, 2015 1:39 am

Hi Doc, Thanks for the response.
I would be a fool to question someone with a history such as yours, but I've certainly got to challenge a few things you've said - Just because Mum said not to play in the pool, dosen't mean we didnt do it anyway :)

1st up - I am not a fan of turbo yeasts. But I have to question a few things here, despite my L plates - and hey, I'm far from too big to be shown the dunce seat.

I'm not after greed, I am after quality - especially with kidney issues ripe in the family - but, part of the query here is that I'm pulling washes through a reflux vapour filteration system at something appraoching 96%. I do not know too many comercial people doing that on a drip, drip, drip basis? I reckon the power bill alone would kill 'em...let alone the time.

If I make a wash from TPW and a wash from Turbo and then after some pretty intense filteration processes(ie boiled vapour through 1+ metre of tight packed steel wool, that is refluxed back to main wash over and over again), and if i end up with something approaching a similar final product - then, ya know what ? I would be equally foolish to not look at final output. If I take 1 in 3 jars from a TPW wash vs a 1 in 5 jars from a turbo but end up with similar product - then it makes sense to stay with TPW. But what if quality difference is 100% completely undedectable and then quantity starts falling into 20 or 30% or even larger gains with turbos ?

I agree that Turbo's were no doubt initially used for fuel production - but have they changed over the past 10 or even last 2 years ? Wouldn't produces of such a vile creation listen to forums, to feedback and hear what people are saying and address the shortfalls ?? Surely if they did not, they would end up falling to the darkness of someone more willing to improve the product ? I dont know - I do not have the knowledge, who does ? Have they improved ?? Have you actually used them recently at all Doc to see what's what ?
I have read many, MANY things about turbo yeasts - from being completley undrinkable to others that would swear by it - is it wrong for ME(personally) to prove too myself one way or the other? I would hope you would not close off your mind to open experimentation - if the turbos are as you say, then I will no doubt come to the same conclusion or conclude with results that would question myself re my taste, my processes, or similar ? I did in fact a similar thing earlier on in my distilling career and swore Id never go back to Turbos (I was collecting at lower ABV's) - but then I started to speak to people whom were getting closer and closer to azetrpoe and the gap seemingly started to close and that is when I started to question the process vs quality output. Would I put turbo washes into a pot still ? not a chance for my thinking as the filtration is not there.

I had previously spoken to a couple of people whom were open to tasting some of my product - as your aware, I posted previously that I really could not verbalise what I was chasing in terms of quality product. I am the first to say - yep - I am learning. Some of these people told me to not bring them anything with Turbo used in the process, they could apparently taste the supplements, some stated they could taste the vitamin B' in turbo and it tasted shit...it somewhat amused me later, when colleagues whom used nothing but turbos blew these same, older and more experienced drinkers away...each to their own ? maybe / maybe not.

You say that there is a comercial advantage(quantity) in using turbo yeasts if they offered a similar final product so why wouldnt comercial sellers use turbos ? Doc - In my opinion, if any one was in fact using Turbos or a variant of, they most certainly would not advise anyone or make it public, who's to say that the closely guarded secret yeast from XXX distillery does not add cerain supplements that might inadvertently end up classifying that strain close to turbo yeast ? Who knows what is exactly in turbo yeast vs what goes into a huge comercial set up? I dont know...We already know what crap that some comercials leave in their product - I would not be surprised if variants are not being used.
What I do know is that many, many people whom are not comercial and cannot afford 1000+ litre fermenters for a mere 5 litre output, look to turbos or variants for a semi decent final product and removing that component from the mix would inadvertently make it completely uneconomical and thus remove ppl from the hobby. Does this mean that they are not 'quality' distillers because their personal situation dictates - space, financial, time, personal constraints, etc - that they have to use supplemented yeast? I think it means that the majority of those people using turbos, would probably - if they could - move away from fuel maker yeasts and move away even faster if it was 1000% proven that the shit is detrimental for renal process or definitively was inferior. Sometimse, you have to touch the paint - despite the sign saying 'wet paint'.

I will be interested in tomorrows run and especially interested in seeing if a couple of locals can tell me which is which...maybe it is a question of palet maturity? I'd love it even better if I could send the results to a chemist or someone with a more defined pallet.
If you feel that strongly about it - then i'll keep my personal findings to myself?
Bf.
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Re: About classic 8 Turbo Yeast

Postby the Doctor » Sun Aug 30, 2015 8:41 am

If you wish to use a yeast not designed to make a product for human consumption...go for it I don't care. But I consider it unsafe distilling practice and it will not be promoted here...few distillers are as good as they think they are... so promoting a yeast which is dangerous to those who have delusions of adequacy is not going to take place on this forum. And I will not enter into a discussion on this...
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Re: About classic 8 Turbo Yeast

Postby bigfoot » Mon Aug 31, 2015 4:11 pm

So after a little misunderstanding - I have been given permission to post my findings from my experiment.
I know a lot of turbo users - and I wanted to undertake a neutral experiemnt for nothing more than to see the results for myself.
I followed both receipts to a T, allowing an additional 2 litres of wash for both TPW and turbo to ensure I did not delve into lees. I undertook the runnings on a 50 litre Boka rig, with a 2400 watt element set at 75%, with water / air temps the same.

I threw 100mls of foreshots from each and collected well into tails.

I completed the TPW first and collected approx 12 x approx 300mls - approx 3.6 litres.
I completed the Turbo the next day and collected 13.5 x approx 300mls - approx 4 litres.

I let them air for 24 hours and began cutting.
One thing that was very VERY clear from the oust - there was a slight industrial smell from the turbo heads against a slightly sweeter smelll for TPW heads.
The hearts was very neutral and unassuming for the TPW whilst the turbo again had a strange "overhang" smell - nothing you would call horrible but it was there.
The tails was where I found the biggest difference. The Tails for the turbo were disgusting - absolutely disgusting and I could not get the smell from my nose...for a period of time. Thanks coffee.

The thing that bewildered me was that Turbo is always promoted as a quantity product and that may be true - if you are collecting EVERYTHING in one go. But when you start doing cuts - I found that because of smearing, I HAD to take less of the turbo to get a decent clear spirit(Smell/Taste).
This means I actually kept 2.8 litres of TPW vs 2.7 litres of turbo - the tails started much earlier in the turbo and this hurt the cuts.

So what I did next was - took the resulting product and placed 300 ml of the combined hearts into an unmarked glass and took to 5 friends.

Not ONE person chose the unmarked turbo over the TPW and if I am honest, it was not even close. The turbo hearts still had an industrial - almost steel or slightly metallic undertone that even my young boy reckoned he could smell. it was not bad and in isolation - you might not notice it - against a clear TPW, it was like nuts on a bulldog.

So that is it for me.
Yes, all you people can say I told you so - but i had to see for myself. Yes Turbo yeasts are shit and a basic TPW will give better results in both quality and if you are doing honest cuts - quantity. I doubt I will ever utilise the Gold packet yeasts again.
Cheers
Bf.
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Re: About classic 8 Turbo Yeast

Postby JayD » Mon Aug 31, 2015 4:21 pm

Modern Distillers do not support the use of Turbo yeast in fermentation that is destined for human consumption, as such please do not post threads on its use...I will delete threads that do so. This forum is about safety, quality and supporting a learning environment for all...your co operation is appreciated.
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