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Yeast contribution to taste?

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Yeast contribution to taste?

Postby bigfoot » Tue Apr 12, 2016 5:24 pm

This question has been bugging me for a while now.
There are a lot of different yeast strains - and some are more alc tolerant than others.
I note that the big commercials treat their yeast like gold - but why?

How much flavour does yeast contribute to flavour??

Example - I usually use a bakers yeast and have good success up to 14-15% abv. I now have a heap of peaches I'm going to ferment soon and I've been told I must use a wine yeast, so i bought some specialised wine and fruit yeast suitable for fortified wines - fair enough, it makes sense...but why that yeast? Why not ec118, or whiskey or beer yeast? Differences??
How much different would the taste be if bakers yeast was used?
I guess the over arching question is - How much flavour does yeast contribute to over all flavour?
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Re: Yeast contribution to taste?

Postby the Doctor » Tue Apr 12, 2016 7:32 pm

yeasts are very individual in the way they expose the esters, terpenes and potential flavours and aromas available in any wash... this is less of interest in neutral vodka or gin base. but in whiskey and brandy the yeast chosen can have a dramatic effect. I have used english ale yeasts for whiskey and can say that the flavours produced were fabulous, fruity and complex... I think that this is where many whiskey yeasts started their life, I now use a malt whiskey yeast..but to be honest i do not think it any better than a good ale yeast... for neutral no yeast profile we use uvaferm 43 or EC 1118.
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Re: Yeast contribution to taste?

Postby S-Cackalacky » Tue Apr 12, 2016 11:34 pm

What Doc said ^^^. I've also read on several occasions that grains like a higher temp ferment and fruits like lower temps and slower ferments. I've only ever used EC-1118 for my apple brandy ferments. Baker's yeast is my go to for most everything else, but I'm looking forward to trying Doc's recommendations.
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Re: Yeast contribution to taste?

Postby Swedish Pride » Wed Apr 13, 2016 7:37 pm

been a lot of threads on yeast latley, in most forums i frequent, or is it me reading more yeast related threads, don't know.
Anyway, decided to venture in to the worlds of yeasts, other that bakers. got 5 sachets of safale- 05, it's been recommended highly by Jimbo, who's opinnion most value.
cost a pretty penny too, 15eurors for 5 sachets, that would by a shed load of bakers, so I hope there is a distinct improvement of the finished product.
One sachet per 10 G it tells me, balls to that, I'll use one per 22G ferment, just have to get a starter going to make the culture grow a bit before chucking it in.
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Re: Yeast contribution to taste?

Postby Fullmoon » Mon May 23, 2016 4:02 am

One sachet per 10 G it tells me, balls to that, I'll use one per 22G ferment, just have to get a starter going to make the culture grow a bit before chucking it in. ---(quote)

Did you read your packet right? Mine reads 1 packet, 11.5 G, per 20-30 L or 5-8 gal.

Anyway I pitched my 1st Safale 05 a few days ago on some Barley plus peated Barley AG. Got 5 G in the fermenter I have always been a bakers yeast guy with satisfactory results.
I have it at 68F in a regulated cooler. It took of much slower than I have been used to, about 30 hrs, but once it started it has been going really well.
I have the same recipe with bakers yeast on oak right now, so I am really anxious to make a comparison.
Jimbos all AG recipe and he recommends this yeast, so giving it a go.
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Re: Yeast contribution to taste?

Postby Timbo » Sun Jun 26, 2016 3:28 am

Saw this experiment using four different yeasts in making a rum. I just assumed that one used distiller's yeast for products that they were going to distill - and that baker's yeast would crap out above 8-10% - may have to change my thinking!

http://www.clawhammersupply.com/blogs/m ... distilling

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Re: Yeast contribution to taste?

Postby andy1982 » Sat Jan 28, 2017 11:00 am

Walking in the homebrew shop yesterday and saw the turbo yeasts and a packet next to them saying distillers yeast one for vodka rum and whiskey and no where on the packet says turbo yeast but have a feeling it is anyone help with this cuz I don't want to accidentally buy shit yeast
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Re: Yeast contribution to taste?

Postby andy1982 » Sat Jan 28, 2017 11:01 am

Was going to get ec118 but saw that and thought it could b interesting
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Re: Yeast contribution to taste?

Postby S-Cackalacky » Sat Jan 28, 2017 11:21 pm

I would say, the most widely used general purpose yeast used by home distillers is baking yeast from the grocery store. It works especially well for rum. I've used EC1118 for fruit washes (apple brandy) and for rice vodka. It works a little slower and at a lower temp compared to bakers yeast, but seems to give a little cleaner tasting result.

You won't find many here recommending turbo yeast. It's designed to produce high alcohol washes - up to 20%, or so. It also greatly alters a typical home distiller recipe by adding more nutrients than might be required. This can produce off-flavors and even blue colored distillate. Probably best to stay away from it.

If you read some of the proven recipe discussions, you will usually find some yeast recommendations for that particular recipe that will help you to make decisions on what you would like to use. Some folks are very particular about the yeast they choose for specific recipes. I've only ever used baker's yeast and EC-1118 and have been very happy with my results.
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Re: Yeast contribution to taste?

Postby S-Cackalacky » Sat Jan 28, 2017 11:53 pm

I wasn't allowed to edit my previous post, so just to add to the last paragraph - that's not to say I won't be trying other yeasts in the future. I'm anxious to try ale yeast with a couple of AG ferments.
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Re: Yeast contribution to taste?

Postby bigfoot » Sun Jan 29, 2017 7:02 am

What amazes me, the big manufacturers will tell you their mash bill, all their ingrediants and processes - but only "3" ppl with cyanide capsules under their teeth know the yeast strain...
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Re: Yeast contribution to taste?

Postby andy1982 » Sun Jan 29, 2017 9:32 am

So what I wanted to know was if it was a turbo cuz if it is I won't buy it as I have never used it I've used the bakers and ec118 but thought I have found something different as it doesn't say it's a turbo but is in the same section so I was a bit jubious and didn't buy it
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Re: Yeast contribution to taste?

Postby S-Cackalacky » Mon Jan 30, 2017 12:41 am

andy1982 wrote:So what I wanted to know was if it was a turbo cuz if it is I won't buy it as I have never used it I've used the bakers and ec118 but thought I have found something different as it doesn't say it's a turbo but is in the same section so I was a bit jubious and didn't buy it

Haven't personally used distillers yeast, but yes, there are strains called "distiller's yeast" that aren't turbo. I think the main thing that distinguishes a yeast as a "turbo" yeast is what has been added to it (nutrients). I would also imagine that the yeast used in the mix would be a high alcohol tolerant yeast. If it's labeled "distillers" yeast, read the entire label to see if there's anything added to it, what percent alcohol it can tolerate, etc. Maybe even ask the owner of the HBS. Do a search here and on other forums using the search term "distillers yeast" to find information about specific brands.
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Re: Yeast contribution to taste?

Postby andy1982 » Mon Jan 30, 2017 9:30 pm

Yeah when I read the packet it said some nutrient was added to give u a high alc content which made me think it was a turbo any who I'll just stick to the bakers
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Re: Yeast contribution to taste?

Postby Swedish Pride » Tue Jan 31, 2017 3:28 am

bigfoot wrote:What amazes me, the big manufacturers will tell you their mash bill, all their ingrediants and processes - but only "3" ppl with cyanide capsules under their teeth know the yeast strain...
Bigfoot


lots of info on scotch yeast, no idea on the yeast in Bourbon.
many in scottland use these http://www.abmauriukandireland.com/prod ... t-details/
have not been able to find a dried version or any version that sells to the public
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Re: Yeast contribution to taste?

Postby bigfoot » Tue Jan 31, 2017 9:34 am

I've watched a lot of docos on barcardi, dark rums, JD, makers mark - they will tell u the mash bill and process no worries...but the yeast is a closely guarded secret, indicating the importance and flavour contribution.
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Re: Yeast contribution to taste?

Postby Swedish Pride » Tue Jan 31, 2017 7:26 pm

Makers have cultivated their own yeast since before prohibition, interesting read this
http://www.whiskeypages.com/whiskey/jus ... ustom.html
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Re: Yeast contribution to taste?

Postby bigfoot » Tue Jan 31, 2017 8:06 pm

It all kinda spins me out a bit...I mean the actual taste of the "yeast farts" are the differences between outstanding and crap...I mean geez.
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Re: Yeast contribution to taste?

Postby SunShine » Fri Feb 03, 2017 7:33 pm

I have just finished 6 AG Whisky runs using 6 different yeasts, grain bill was identical. Yeast used:
Safspirit Malt Whisky yeast
Safspirit American Whisky Yeast
Safale 05
Safale 04
Safale T58
Nottingham Ale Yeast
After airing cuts I sampled a nip from the middle jar of each run, they all had slightly different tastes, once they have been on oak for 6 moths I will taste again.
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Re: Yeast contribution to taste?

Postby Swedish Pride » Fri Feb 03, 2017 8:04 pm

SunShine wrote:I have just finished 6 AG Whisky runs using 6 different yeasts, grain bill was identical. Yeast used:
Safspirit Malt Whisky yeast
Safspirit American Whisky Yeast
Safale 05
Safale 04
Safale T58
Nottingham Ale Yeast
After airing cuts I sampled a nip from the middle jar of each run, they all had slightly different tastes, once they have been on oak for 6 moths I will taste again.


This should be interesting, also did you ever do a bakers one?
Just wonderign as it would be the most common one and would be cool to have that as a yardstick
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Re: Yeast contribution to taste?

Postby bigfoot » Fri Feb 03, 2017 8:47 pm

I would be very keen to hear the results from this - I would imagine the variances should get larger.
When you say they tasted different, was it dramatically different??
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Re: Yeast contribution to taste?

Postby SunShine » Sun Feb 05, 2017 11:30 am

Swedish Pride wrote:
SunShine wrote:I have just finished 6 AG Whisky runs using 6 different yeasts, grain bill was identical. Yeast used:
Safspirit Malt Whisky yeast
Safspirit American Whisky Yeast
Safale 05
Safale 04
Safale T58
Nottingham Ale Yeast
After airing cuts I sampled a nip from the middle jar of each run, they all had slightly different tastes, once they have been on oak for 6 moths I will taste again.


This should be interesting, also did you ever do a bakers one?
Just wonderign as it would be the most common one and would be cool to have that as a yardstick

Not for AG Whisky, I have done side by side with sugarheads, Malt Whisky yeast wins hands down.
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Re: Yeast contribution to taste?

Postby SunShine » Sun Feb 05, 2017 11:31 am

bigfoot wrote:I would be very keen to hear the results from this - I would imagine the variances should get larger.
When you say they tasted different, was it dramatically different??
Si

None of the difference were huge, the biggest was the T58 followed by the American Whiskey yeast.
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Re: Yeast contribution to taste?

Postby andy1982 » Sun Feb 05, 2017 10:23 pm

Better or worse
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Re: Yeast contribution to taste?

Postby SunShine » Tue Feb 07, 2017 7:41 pm

andy1982 wrote:Better or worse

Hard to say, I have tasted Whisky at 1 month and thought its going to be god only to be disappointed later on. These days I try to hold of until at least 6 months before tasting. :handgestures-thumbupright:
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Re: Yeast contribution to taste?

Postby C2H6O » Sat Aug 12, 2017 9:45 am

I've tried several different yeast in the last couple months. Bakers, Trappist ale, white labs bourbon, and even belle saison yeast. All of which had a great and uniqu aroma during fermentation and after. Once I run them i can't tell the difference between them. However the saison was a surprise. Very fast ferment. Can tolerate up to 14% abv. And likes temperatures from the 70s well into the 90s. Maybe down the road the characteristics of each yeast will shine through but for now I see no difference I go with cheap.
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